Dear Folks,

I suppose that most relationships start as a triangle or two; that is true in Jane Austen's novels. Some are as innocuous as the Anne/Wentworth/Louisa relationship and some really have only one dominant edge as is the case for the Miss-Bingley/Darcy/Elizabeth interaction. A more complete example is the Lucy/Edward/Elinor relationship in Sense and Sensibility. However nothing can engage our interest as much as that Mansfield triangle formed on Fanny Price, Edward Bertram, and Mary Crawford; I want to explore that with you.

Fanny was filled with loathing and contempt for Mary's brother and she didn't like Mary either, but things could not be so simple in the case of the sister, and that is interesting. Things were not so simple because Mary did seem to develop a genuine friendship for Fanny and that was a complication. That feeling was not so strong, however, that Mary was not above betraying Fanny - not above making Fanny vulnerable to Henry Crawford. And I cannot help noticing that every single act of kindness to Fanny was then accompanied by an improvement of Mary's relationship to Edmund. It almost seems that, in Mary Crawford, Jane Austen created a wiser, subtler Miss Bingley or a gentler if craftier Lucy Steele.

However, Mary is not in perfect control and we love her for it. We learn this in Chapter XII of Volume 1: the Mansfield heir, Tom Bertram has returned from a vacation of excess

"... to be gay, agreeable, and gallant again as occassion served, or Miss Crawford demanded, to tell of races and Weymouth, and parties and friends, to which she might have listened six weeks before with some interest, and altogether to give her fullest conviction, by the power of actual comparison, of her preferring his younger brother."
"It was very vexatious, and she was sorry for it; but so it was; and so far from now meaning to marry the elder, she did not even want to attract him beyond what the simplest claims of conscious beauty required; ... "

"What the simplest claims of conscious beauty required" - I love it. I mean Mary wanted to zonk ol' Tom, only not all that much. Of course this vexatious attachment meant that Mary had to straighten out a few things for Edmund; I mean he had to be made aware that he was not to be ordained; "you should go into the law" and "you should have gone into the Army ten years ago." All that presumption and insensitivity really ate into Fanny, and Fanny was allowed to hear it all.

Mary became interested in Fanny at about the same time that she became interested in Edmund. Perhaps that was because it was obvious that Edmund was the outspoken champion of Fanny. He arranged for a horse for Fanny and it was only he, in the absence of Sir Thomas, that pushed Fanny forward in company - Fanny had far less status with the rest of the family. Indeed, to a stranger, such as Mary Crawford, her status would have seemed ambiguous and it was hardly a surprise that Mary asked if Fanny was "out", full out in company. Even Edmund had difficulty answering this question and that shows how little the Bertrams had thought about making Fanny's relationship and expectations clear - how ambiguous was Fanny's status even in the family. This also shows how alert was our Mary Crawford.

Mary's first act of kindness to Fanny occurred during the preparation for the play when some of Fanny's family treated Fanny abominably. That began one evening when the young people were sitting about in various groups and preparing for the play. The Mansfield heir began the lacerations with

" 'Fanny,' cried Tom Bertram, ... 'we want your services'
Fanny was up in a moment, expecting some errand, for the habit of employing her in that way was not yet overcome, in spite of all that Edmund could do.
'Oh! we do not want to disturb you from your seat. ... We shall only want you in our play. You must be Cottager's wife.' "

" 'Indeed but you must, for we cannot excuse you. It need not frighten you; it is a nothing of a part ... it will not much signify if nobody hears a word you say, so you may be as creepmouse as you like, ... You have only two scenes, and as I shall be the Cottager, I'll put you in and push you about; and you will do it very well I'll answer for it.' "

Nice! But that was as a caress compared to what followed. The party, including Mr. Crawford reinforced Tom's request, but the worst was to come from aunt Norris who admonished Fanny to oblige her cousins. Edmund tried to head off the old dragon:

" 'Do not urge her madam,' said Edmund. 'It is not fair to urge her in this manner.--You see she does not like to act.--Let her choose for herself as well as the rest of us.--Her judgment may be quite as safely trusted.--do not urge her anymore.' "

And then Aunt Norris dropped the hammer.

" 'I am not going to urge her,' replied Mrs. Norris sharply, 'but I shall think her a very obstinate, ungrateful girl, if she does not do what her aunt and cousins wish her--very ungrateful indeed, considering who and what she
is.' "

There it was at last - no one had ever been so explicit before, but Tom and Aunt Norris set the record straight - "who and what she is" - the "creepmouse" - and worse. It was all so clear now and should have been expected but Fanny began to weep; Edmund was too furious to speak; and, Mary Crawford was astonished. But Mary was strong, confident, and had a flare and an understanding. Mary moved quickly to sooth and comfort Fanny with words, but that was not enough. That could never be enough; Mary knew that; and, she knew that she must overpower Fanny - take control of Fanny in order to heal her. And Mary overpowered Fanny, demanded her attention, directed her thoughts toward brother William Price, refused to let loose of her - and healed her.

"Fanny did not love Miss Crawford; but she felt very much obliged to her for her present kindness; ..."

There are two subtleties in that same passage that is so-oo Jane Austen; the first was where Mary moved to make sure that the thing that had started all this would not recur:

"...By a look at her brother, she prevented any further entreaty from the theatrical board ..."

Wonderful! That's all it took, a glance at her brother was enough. Whatever else I may say about the Crawfords, I will admit that they were excellent brother and sister. The other subtlety becomes apparent when we ask ourselves whether or not this was an unalloyed kindness on Mary's part. I think the answer is "no", and I base that on the fact that the passage is embedded within a difficulty that Mary and Edmund were experiencing with one another. The Mansfield players were casting the roles for Lovers' Vows, and Mary had been assigned the role of Amelia. But who was to play the role of her Anhalt? "...Who is to be Anhalt? What gentleman among you am I to have the pleasure of making love to?" says Mary to the players, while stealing glances at the brooding Edmund. Mary was no creepmouse and so she confronted Edmund with "If any part could tempt you to act, I suppose it would be Anhalt. ... for he is a clergyman you know." But Edmund was still able to decline and so they parted, each unhappy with the other's attitude.

"Miss Crawford was silenced; and with some feelings of resentment and mortification, moved her chair considerably near the tea-table..."

and away from Edmund. It was immediately after this unhappiness that the lacerations of Fanny began; those insults followed by Mary's rescue. And what had Edmund to do with any of that? Jane Austen put it this way:

"...and the really good feelings by which she was almost purely governed, were rapidly restoring her to all the little she had lost in Edmund's favour."

What a beautifully crafted sentence - "by which she was almost purely governed". Those feelings had to be nearly the sole reason for her actions or Edmund would not have been so thoroughly charmed, but "almost" helps us more clearly understand what was really happening.

Jane Austen endows Mary Crawford with ambiguity and, thereby, transforms her from a character in a novel to a living person. Mary was wise but she did not know everything that was crucial. Mary did not understand that she could not love Tom Bertram, as she would have wished, because he had no center. Mary loved Edmund because he had a soul, the very thing that she would have destroyed had they married. Fanny understood this; it was this very thing that Fanny saw happening. In our real lives, Mary and Edmund would have married, and been happy until Mary first saw a puzzling weakness and an emptiness in him that she detested, and then she would have turned her attention elsewhere. Mansfield Park is a great novel and a great credit to our Lady - our prose Shakespeare.

Dear Ashton,

Well done, the _______shires! Splendid analysis.

I look forward with great eagerness to the responses of Julie and Anielka, but Heather, Cheryl, and Ray must be ready to add treasure to the seminar up to this point and also the others, I think, can be prepared, if they will.

From the Meister: (Cough.) Thank
you J-John.(Sniff.) I love you, man.

Dear Sir,

Oh, there were much more than two.  Apart from the lewd inhabitants of the Female Factory (much given to mooning passing dignitaries from upper windows), there were the more respectable females collected, packaged, and mailed to the colony by the good offices of Mrs Chisholm.

Just let me make it to Saturday (assuming I don't throttle somebody at work today and end up in the aforementioned Factory, sans computer), and I'll reply to your heart's content. Meanwhile, I'm off to find a valium, in order to erase the mental picture of an ageing, cat-loving American sitting before the computer screen, naked but for a baseball cap.  Too, too much at 6.00a.m.!
Julie

From the Meister: "cat-loving"? I resent that! Although, you do call to mind my new cat, Strumpet. She is about six months old, and my wife brought her in the house the other day, along with the one-word report, "homeless". - "So?", sez I. I immediately called the SPCA, but they said they had enough of that type and couldn't take on any more. They wouldn't even take the cat. Strumpet likes to walk on my keyboard; in fact, she made the last three postings. I wouldn't mind, but does she have to smirk like that?

Dear Ashton,

Present.  Still reading.  Your efforts acknowledged.  Fabulous!!!! (Only two of those exclamation points were actually sincere, and one of those belongs at the end of a different sentence.) Can only post briefly: toilet plugged, grandma sick, editing humungous "novel" for client whose name isn't Richardson but who is probably related somehow, "senses" failing (probably numbed by aforementioned novel), relatives visiting, little sleep, child with sniffles, husband tackling new job, mystery person cancelled my internet account, thought it was a software problem, back on track, new cat. No goats to milk or whatever, however, so you'd think I'd have more time, had a nap instead of lunch.  Must dash (long or short) to forage for sustenance in mini mall.  If I do not post again within the week, send a search party.  (I may have fallen into the ubiquitous or inevitable Gap.)

But...your insight, particularly into the subtle and intricate details of our lady's language, is fascinating as always. Please carry on (insert superfluous exclamation point here)

From the Meister: O.K. - how's this? <[|:o)!!!. We knew that you worked with lawyers, but this is the first time you mentioned that you were an editor. Your plate is full - but, we need you.

I can't seem to recall why in Jane Austen's novels specific locations often have a dash as part of the proper name, as if the locale is being protected.  I have seen this in other novels of the time.  Milk and cookies to whoever can set me straight.  Also, has anyone seen the new Mansfield Park?
Lynn-Cherie

Dear Lynn,

Yes, I have noticed that. The dash is sometimes also used in place of a proper name. I can't answer your question - my guess is similar to yours.

I believe that the film has only been shown in film festivals to this point. The theatrical opening is sometime this week I believe. Have you seen it already? You will find a great deal of preliminary discussion on this board. Here is link to two reviews of the film and to excerpts from an interview with the writer-director Patricia Rozema.

Dear Ashton,

Sense: This is an excellent site for the meanings of the language of sense and and sensibility. It would be of interest to some of the Male Voices.

Here is an example.

Sense

Introduction:

Like understanding, sense is a site of battle between the mind and the body. In both its mental and physical connotations, sense means perception: on the one hand, the consciousness and judgement provided by the mental faculties; on the other hand, the consciousness of external stimuli supplied by the corporeal senses-- sight, hearing, smell, taste, and touch-- as well as the awareness of internal changes in the sensations of one's own body. While the mind is considered (by some) to be able to grasp things as they "really are," the senses are often accused of getting reality wrong, of giving disproportioned apprehension of things in the world. In the literature, this imbalance between the mental and the corporeal senses, in which the latter variety of sense is dominant, results in rage, lust, and violence (think of Richardson's Lovelace or Lewis's Ambrosio). A healthy sensibility, on the other hand, is an acute faculty, which relies primarily on the body's heightened ability to receive and filter data from the outside, but also on a native intelligence or soundness of judgement which bears on behavior and action.

Dear Ash,

I think that it is absolutely *wonderful* that you started a web page for male appreciation of JA!  I don't normally use exclamation points, mainly because I feel that they denote a sense of false enthusiasm; however, in the last sentence, I was very sincere in my punctuation. Since seventh grade I have doubted if there was a man alive who appreciated Austen...and that doubt was reinforced by a recent web page I found, created by a guy, that was entitled "Jane Austen Must Die!!" (Which, of course, is silly, mainly because she is already dead.) But now I have hope.

If there are any Darcy-like men that you know, could you please send them to me?
Gratefully,
CT

Dear Carine,

It's an odd thing, but every man who posts here is a cross between Darcy and Wentworth. That is a good thing because we are facing an army of Elizabeth Bennets.

Welcome to the community. I hope you will take the time to look at the Table of Contents for this website; there you will find links to a large number of quotes of men who had much to say about Jane Austen. That feature has a second page.

Dear Folks,

The rest of you guys might accept being "a cross between Darcy and Wentworth". Surely I am not expected to accept myself as being any part of a Darcy. Nor I’m afraid would I make much of a Wentworth. When Anne saw me eight years after she turned me down, I would have a wife and three children.

My speed is to be a cross between Mr. Bennet and Mr. Woodhouse. I will now retire to my room, read a book and have a bowl of gruel.

Dear John,

I'm in complete agreement with you as to the casting of the previous P&P.  This shouldn't be taken as a slight on the A&E version, just that Elizabeth Garvie managed to be both arch and sweet and David Rintoul was more successful  creating a Darcy who had more complexity than "rich asshole."  I've expressed my quibbles with the A&E version before, and won't bore you with them again.

I'm in awe of your daughter.  About the only feminine stereotype I've succumbed to in my life is complete idiocy in maths.  I'm currently slogging my way through "Fashionable Nonsense" which is by the two authors who perpetrated the hoax a few years ago, submitting an article of complete gibberish to an American peer reviewed sociology magazine. It discusses and tries to make sense for the layman, how and why so many "post modern" attempts to prove the fuzzy sciences using physics and advance mathematical theory is complete crap.  It's tough going, partly because the maths are so much Greek to me and partly because a lot of the original material quoted reads like those self-published religious pamphlets you see in Southern laundromats.   Have you seen it? I'd recommend it highly, although the authors' prose style leaves a bit to be desired.

I'm also reading JA "minor works," and hope to become somewhat conversant on the subject soon. I've particularly enjoyed the comments on Mansfield Park and Emma that are included in the index.  Does anyone find themselves smiling over the fact that male readers feel that having Maria run off with Henry Crawford unbelievable, while the women mention it as being particularly true to life?

I've decided I'm not hard core enough to drive over to Seattle next Monday so I can see Mansfield Park before it officially opens.  It will be the lead off film for the Women in Film (or Women directors, or something) film festival.  Somehow, it doesn't strike me as a crowd that would be terribly interested or sympathetic to your average JA fan, or to the actual novels themselves rather than the feminist Hollywood versions.   But maybe that's just my own prejudice showing.

Ashton: What did you think of "A Midsummer Night's Dream"?  I've never managed to get all the way through the 30's (?I think) version so I can't compare the two.  More successful than Brannaugh's "Hamlet" but less so than "Richard III" or Brannaugh's others.  I can't wait to see "Titus Andronicus" with Anthony Hopkins.  What a bizarre choice for a film.  Or maybe not.  Rape, torture, guts 'n' gore.  What more does the modern audience need?
Cheryl

From the Meister: I was ready to walk out at the beginning because the film was set in nineteeth century Italy, even though they maintained the dialog and plot of ancient Athens. But then I was stunned by the beauty and creativity. I thought the film wonderful. I'm not sure that Michelle Pffiefer wasn't in over her head, but everyone else was superb. That French actress was wonderful and her accent did seem to work with all the Americans'. My feelings about Brannaugh are best summed up by that unintentionally hilarious final scene in Hamlet when he was being carried off over the heads of about six guys; he was supine, his head was hanging over backwards, and his arms were spread. I turned to my wife and said "boy, those Danes sure knew how to serve ham let!".

Dear Mr. Payton,

Sometimes I think that only Elizabeth Garvie, David Rintoul, and I understand Jane Austen. There are many who would not find it difficult to say that is a bit much.

When I saw the PBS version, I thought that I had never seen seen anything that had given me such pleasure and that feeling has not changed, although Jennifer Ehle's portrayal of Lizzy's first sight of Pemberley must rank in my mind with Garvie's thanking Darcy for what he had secretly done for all of her family.

I have thought it a pity that neither version showed the transformed Liz and Darcy setting about writing their letters.

May I say that Dolly Parton may appear in anything, anywhere, any time and would find praise from me.

Dear John,

When I write about the 1979 P&P everyone has to keep in mind that I haven't seen it since it first ran on PBS. That's a long time ago for this tiny mind and for me to remember much about it now must mean that I was impressed in some way. I remember liking Darcy in that version because of his distance. But then I have trouble considering High Noon a classic western because Gary Cooper came a little too close to whining.

Despite my lack of higher education I still believe that the Elizabethans spoke with an accent similar to that of Appalachia. It makes sense to me because they still use words and terminology similar to Shake's and because it was, until recently, fairly isolated. A look at Jean Ritchie's songs shows a continuation of a song form that is 17th and 18th Anglo/Irish.

I think it would be interesting to have Dolly Parton play Lady Macbeth. It would be so against type that it would be a shock. I love Dolly and her bluegrass (a descendant of the Anglo/Irish form) is great.

I'm probably repeating soemthing everyone else knows, but while searching the Republic of Pemberly site I came across an item that stated that Fay Weldon was working on a version of P&P called The Bennet Boys in which the genders are changed. It sounds pretty weird and political to me.

Finally, my problem with most filmed versions of classics is that the screenwriters and director have no sense of history. Too often they create the characters in their own image. It must be remembered that people in the past were much better in sublimating their desires than we seem to be able to do. The modern age seems to see sex behind everything in the same way that Joe McCarthy saw a Red under every bed. The new version of Mansfield Park is an example. The director seems to have a lesbian viewpoint and so she inserts this viewpoint into the movie.

And also, there is the fact that, in the U.S especially and in California in particular, the people who make movies are unable to appreciate what it was like to live in the past. I heard a story ( and I'm not sure how true it is) about a movie that was being film that took place in the fifties. There was a scene in the movie that bothered the director in which one of the characters had to find a piece of obscure information. He asked the screenwriter how the character finds the information and the answer was, "He found it on his PC."

The point is that sometimes the best movies take place in the brain. My Elizabeth Bennet may not be someone else's Elizabeth Bennet and no film of a JA work can please all Austinites the same way the books can.

From the Meister: My reference to the surviving remnants of Shakespeare's accent is the documentary on The English Language shown on PBS some years ago. I suspect that the Appalachian accent is not a good candidate because - I may be dead wrong about this - I think that the original European ethnics in that region came from the United States rather than from Britain directly. You are correct, I think, by identifying the underlying culture as Scots-Irish, but that is not Shakespeare's East-Anglian. Many things are subject to individual interpretation, but this is least true in the case of a novel I think - a well written novel that is.

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