The Voices of Men in Praise of Jane Austen
Messages on the Bulletin Board - c. Nov. 4, 2001


          9-11

Dear Voices,

These words were published in North America when Jane Austen was a few days past her first birthday. They seem eerily appropriate to our present moment.

"These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as freedom should not be highly rated. ..."

The author was Thomas Paine (1737-1809), a native Englishman who had taken up the patriotic cause. The words appeared in a newspaper on December 23, 1776; this was to be the first of a series of newspaper articles that Paine wrote to bolster American confidence and resolve. Paine also can be said to have walked the walk as he combined his jounalism with his duties in the American Continental Army. He was widely read and admired and, in this way, Paine performed the same vital service for our founding fathers that Winston Churchill would perform for the British in the darkest days of World War II. (You can find the articles collected in any number of places, usually under the heading of The Crisis; see, for example, the "surprise links" for Nov. 1 )


Tom Paine

Paine came from a lower-class background in England. He had several diverse careers there, from that of a maker of bone stays for corsets to that of an excise-tax collector. He is now known primarily as a progressive philosopher, but I like to think of him best as an inspirational writer. I mean, I like him best when reading his Crisis articles or, more to the point of this posting, his famous inspirational, polemical essay Common Sense (January, 1776).

Here is a sequence of events: the first shots of the Revolution were fired in April 1775; Jane Austen was born in December 1775; Common Sense was published in January 1776; and, the Declaration of Independence was signed in July 1776. The situation was this, at just the exact same time that the quality of American political leadership was at the highest it would ever be, that of the British leadership was at its lowest ever. I mean, because of accident, illness, and inattention, English numbskulls had somehow gained temporary control. The biggest boob of all wore the crown. If the quality of leadership of either country had been more like the average, we would all still be saluting the Union Jack.

The simple truth is that, even as late as January 1776, there was precious little sentiment for Independence. The assembly that would eventually write and promote the Declaration was already being organized and the estimate is that less than one third of that body favored Independence in January. What changed by July? Many credit the impact of Common Sense. Personally, I put the blame on George III, but I am no expert so I will summarize the argument for Tom Paine.

Common Sense is a call for independence and democracy. It reads beautifully and is very inspirational; you should read it - if you are an American, you must read it. Go ahead! - it won't take long and it's easy. (See the "surprise links" of November 1 for links to e-texts.) It is sometimes described as the first American best seller. The numbers are staggering - listen to some of those. It went through 56 editions in the first year alone and sold 120,000 copies in the first three months and an estimated 500,000 in the first year. I have seen the population of the nascent United States estimated as between 1.5 to 3 million, so these estimates of sales are impressive in the extreme. It is little wonder that some enthusiasts claim that the sole basis for declaring Independence was the wide-spread dissemination of Common Sense.

I know of no evidence that Jane Austen ever engaged Paine's philosophy to any extent, but he certainly has a significant tangency with this web site. That from his frequent and profound connections with Mary Wollstonecraft and William Godwin. In fact, that couple met each other at a private dinner given to entertain Paine. Godwin described that unpromising beginning in this way:

"It was in the month of November in the same year (1791), that the writer of this narrative was first in company with [Mary Wollstonecraft]. He dined with her at a friend's, together with Mr. Thomas Paine and one or two other persons. The invitation was of his own seeking, his object being to see [Thomas Paine], with whom he had never before conversed.

The interview was not fortunate. Mary and myself parted, mutually displeased with each other. I had not read her Rights of Woman. I had barely looked into her Answer to Burke, and had been displeased, as literary men are apt to be, with a few offences against grammar and other minute points of composition. I had therefore little curiosity to see Mrs Wollstonecraft, and a very great curiosity to see Thomas Paine. Paine, in his general habits, is no great talker; and, though he threw in occasionally some shrewd and striking remarks, the conversation lay principally between me and Mary. I, of consequence, heard her, very frequently when I wished to hear Paine."

Remember, this couple would eventually marry and become the parents of Mary Shelley. For that reason, I will excerpt a little bit more even though it is not to the point of this posting. Incidentally, Godwin refers to Mary as "Mrs" because, in those days, that title was given to any mature woman and did not designate marital status.

[We discussed the character of Voltaire and others] "... Mary was at last provoked to tell me, that praise, lavished in the way that I lavished it, could do no credit either to the commended or the commender. We discussed some questions on the subject of religion, in which her opinions approached much nearer to the received one, than mine. ... We touched upon all topics, without treating forcibly and connectedly upon any. Meanwhile, I did her the justice, in giving an account of the conversation to a party in which I supped, though I was not sparing of my own blame, to yield to her the praise of a person of active and independent thinking. On her side, she did me no part of what perhaps I considered as justice."

Hilarious! - on about three different levels!

It is possible that it was at this dinner meeting that Paine first proposed to Mary that she write something like The Rights of Woman. He certainly was in a good position to do that; he was a feminist himself and a great friend of the ultimate feminist of that day, Condorcet. (In fact, it is the feminism of these men that I will emphasize in subsequent postings.) It is certainly true that Paine, himself, was working on his most famous philosophical works, The Rights of Man and The Age of Reason. The latter is an attack on religion and I will say a bit more about that shortly.

Shortly after, Paine would head to France to celebrate the Revolution and to co-author a constitution with Condorcet. Mary followed in another party. That party included her lover, Gilbert Imlay, and a former pupil from Mary's days as a governess. Mary had convinced the younger woman to walk away from her dull marriage and skip to the continent with a lover. It all ended badly, Mary was inpregnated and then abandoned. The Paine-Condorcet constitution was badly mutilated by those to whom it was presented. When Condorcet complained, he was arrested - that was the end of French feminism for a while.

Paine was also arrested for complaining about all the executions; but, at least, Paine was eventually released and allowed to return to America. He might expect to return there to the great popularity he had achieved during the Revolution; but, that was not to be. His anti-religious The Age of Reason now made him a pariah in the new United States and he died here in obscurity and poverty. Later, his reputation grew in England, and his remains were disinterred for return to the country of his birth. The bones were carefully packaged, post marked, and sent away - they never arrived, and people are still trying to learn what happened. Like me, you may think this a great tragedy - at first - but then you may learn to agree that there is something mighty poetic about Thomas Paine suspended somewhere between our two nations.

Finally, I offer this song. I haven't the foggiest notion of what Bob Dylan is getting at, but I am as addled over his songs as I am about our Lady's novels so I am confident that something important is happening here. If you understand just what, I would be very grateful if you helped me out. Thanking you in advance, here is ...

As I went out one morning
To breathe the air around Tom Paine's,
I spied the fairest damsel
That ever walked in chains.
I offer'd her my hand,
She took me by the arm.
I knew that very instant,
She meant to do me harm.

"Depart from me this moment,"
I told her with my voice.
Said she, "But I don't wish to,"
Said I, "Ahh, but you have no choice."
"I beg you sir," she pleaded
From the corners of her mouth,
"I will secretly accept you
And together we will fly south."

Just then Tom Paine, himself,
Came running across the field,
Shouting at this lovely girl
And commanding her to yield.
And as she was letting go her grip,
Up Tom Paine did run.
"I'm sorry, sir," he said to me,
"I'm sorry for what she's done."

Dear Folks,

I want to begin a discussion of feminism in Jane Austen's time. Remember, the word "feminism" is a modern word - Jane Austen never heard it - but the ideas are very old.

I begin with Tom Paine (1737-1809). Paine gave an indication of his opinion of the state of women's rights early on in his literary career. This is an excerpt from his An Occasional Letter to the Female Sex (1775) - Jane Austen was born in 1775:

"Even in countries where they may be esteemed the most happy [women are] constrained in their desires in the disposal of their goods; robbed of freedom and will by laws; slaves of opinion which rules them with absolute sway and construes the slightest appearances into guilt; surrounded on all sides by judges who are at once tyrants and seducers ... for even with changes in attitudes and laws, deeply engrained and oppressing social prejudices remain which confront women minute by minute, day by day."

Well, I think we can call that position clearly stated.

Dear Ash,

Funny, you should bring up this subject just now.  Saturday at a used bookstore I found The Book of Margery Kempe.  I had never heard of it before and it is questionable whether Jane heard of it either, though it was written circa 1438.  It was in the private possession of an old Catholic family - the Butler-Bowdons.  One excerpt was published circa 1501 by Wynkyn de Worde, so there is the slightest possibility that Jane may have seen or heard of it.

Who was she?  Put her name in the Google search engine and that should keep you busy for a while.  Briefly, she was a wife, mother of 14, businesswoman, and made pilgrimages in England, Europe, and the Holy Land.  She visited both great and humble religious figures of her day including mystics and recluses.  She had visions and cried a lot.  Margery could neither read nor write so she dictated the book to others.  A manuscript of her book was discovered in 1934.

What has this book to do with "feminism"?  The following quote is from Book I, Chapter 3 including a footnote:

"And after this time she never had any desire to have sexual intercourse with her husband, for paying the debt of matrimony* was so abominable to her that she would rather, she thought, have eaten and drunk the ooze and muck in the gutter than consent to intercourse, except out of obedience.
    *i.e. the right of both parties to sexual intercourse within marriage under medieval canon law."

The astonishing words are "both parties"!  And it is in the "canon" law!  I would have believed without hesitation, if the law referred only to men, but to include women as well - well, I am all astonishment!  Just think - surely it was some man who wrote that law!

I have only begun researching "feminism", but one thing is for sure - I "have come a long way, baby!" in my thinking and beliefs about it.  There is a whole new world to discover out there. And then there is Thomas Paine, you say - a man after my own heart!
Linda

Dear Ash,

I've begun reading "Common Sense".  I confess my initial impression is that Paine was a fine "Jeffersonian" which isn't intended as a compliment.  Government of rich white guys, for rich white guys, by rich white guys.  (Except of course kings in general and Georges in particular.) There's no question, at least in this document that his use of the male pronoun isn't gender neutral.

I found myself wondering how such a mundane work could have so shaken the world and realize that Paine's contemporaries never questioned the Divine Right of their Kings to lead. Never questioned the merit of birth. Paine talks about the distance between England and her American colonies, but this is nothing compared to the distance between the fundamentals of American ideals and those of her mentor. The gulf between American citizen and British subject was insurmountable and war inevitable.
Cheryl

Dear Voices,

Good old Admiral Croft and Mrs. Croft.  Having torn a muscle in my calf a few days ago I'm on "light exercise" which means keeping to the gravel road and walking at a snail's pace followed by sitting around the house with my leg up until the swelling goes back down.  A few odds and ends:

Water is falling from the sky and has been for several hours now!!! If you see naked farmers or firefighters cavorting for the news cameras, it might be some of my neighbors.  Now, if we could just have about a month more of it things would be good.  If not, well you can probably kiss "wild" salmon in the continental US goodbye right now instead of in ten years and Washington will consider itself lucky if it "only" loses a quarter of a million acres to fire again next year. One hopes we won't lose anymore firefighters (4 killed this summer).

More Harry Potter cast revealed recently.  John Cleese as Nearly Headless Nick, Fiona Shaw as Aunt Petunia.  Kenneth Branagh will play Gilderoy Lockhart in the next movie.  (How perfect is that??) I (also) had Robbie Coltrane as Hagrid in my mental movie, but didn't match the rest of the cast.  Gabriel Byrne looks more like Snape to me but Alan Rickman is a good choice. Roy and I have been trying to figure out Mr. and Mrs. Weasley, and Sirius Black and Professor Lupin. Tim McInnerny & Miriam Margolyes for the Weasleys perhaps. David Straithairn IS Sirius Black in my mind, though he's really too old and an American to boot. Luckily we seem to be experiencing another golden age of character actors like we saw in the 40's so there are lots of choices.

I don't know if anyone has seen 13 Days but Roy and I both gasped audibly when the actor playing Bobby Kennedy first appeared. The word "uncanny" hardly begins to define the physical resemblance. The mixture of black and white and color in different scenes is distracting at first, but makes sense once you understand how the director is using the differences.
Cheryl

Dear Cheryl,

I tripped yesterday and twisted both ankles - when I do something I do it right!  I have one really nasty twist (almost/maybe broken) and a minor twist.  My herbal salve seems to be working - the minor twist is completely healed now, and the nasty twist is 90% better.  I hope to quit crawling in a day or two at the most. Deciding to just sit today I did some reading and watched Cold Comfort Farm which I thoroughly enjoyed. I am now taping True Women and might get to see it tomorrow.

I read some Malthus today - made myself stay off my feet completely - and wanted to make a comment in passing.  Anything in depth will have to wait until I finish my reading.

From the Meister: When was the last time either of you carefully examined your mail?

Ash: you said,

"I have seen no indication whatsoever that our Lady was ever interested in the debate and can see no reflection of those ideas in her novels."

When I read that, what came immediately to mind was the following from the first paragraph of the last chapter of Persuasion:

"When any two young people take it into their heads to marry, they are pretty sure by perseverance to carry their point, be they ever so poor, or ever so imprudent, or ever so little likely to be necessary to each other's ultimate comfort. This may be bad morality to conclude with, but I believe it to be truth."

I could be wrong but it sounds like Jane is saying "subsistance" doesn't matter - to some people.  I will now be looking for other instances of 'economic' statements as I read her novels again.

From the Meister: I believe that Elizabeth Bennet says about the same thing. Find that conversation with her Aunt Gardiner in which the older woman tries to warn Lizzy against an imprudent involvement with Wickham.

I am impressed with the quotes in your "Godwin vs. Malthus" post where you mentioned the comparison with "romantic love by Henry Fielding" - I really liked that section!

Now back to recuperating, and Cheryl I hope you are doing better.
Linda

Dear Linda,

Following message is in response of Linda's 10-26-01 "Archness" message.

Dear Linda,

You are very welcome. I apologize for my belated reply, last two months I am very busy at work.

I am a little confused about your statement "It is not a word that I have used". I wasn't responding to anybody's post.

I post seldom at RoP, but I do check it out almost every day, same as the present board; in fact my first stop is at MV, and then RoP.

I am "Ana" at RoP. Sometime ago I thought you might be "Linda Fern" and now I am pleased to meet you officially. I am impressed with the knowledge and enthusiasm of all the posters on this board, thank you all very much.
Ana

Dear Ana,

I see your confusion and please forgive my poor choice of words.

"It is not a word that I have used".  I meant to say that in the part of the world I come from we do not use that word in everyday conversation.  I was not even sure of the exact meaning - I had to go to the Webster's 1828 Dictionary site to pinpoint the meaning as used in Jane Austen's day.  As a matter of fact, Jane uses a lot of words we no longer use.  The thread you quoted is extremely helpful in understanding, so thanks again.

Here is a link to that 1828 Dictionary at Christian Soup.

I am very glad you enjoy the board - so do I!  Because of the Meister's posting of the "Eleventh Letter", I switched favorites from Pride and Prejudice to Persuasion.

BTW, I am back on my feet again as of Thursday - thank goodness.  You don't know how much you miss your feet until you can't use them!  It is good to hear from you.
Linda

Dear Meister,

Excuse me for addressing you so formally, but I have a bone to pick with you.

I literally stumbled across the 1971 version of Persuasion to discover that one of my favorite actors played Captain Wentworth!  Namely, Bryan Marshall who was in a favorite movie of mine - The Return to Snowy River.

I went to your discussion of Persuasion films where I found only these few words "I recommend both filmed versions of Persuasion".  Nary a word on who was in them.  If there had been a mention, I would have found this version two years ago. As it is, I have just ordered a copy from Amazon (from the Amazon page at RoP so they get a commission - I can shill as well as Cheryl can!).  Hopefully I will only have to wait a few days before I can see it.

I will come down off my high horse long enough to say that I do appreciate the recommendation even as scanty as it is.  I admire Bryan well enough not to even care if the production is good or not.  I just want to see Him!  See - we women can go as ga-ga over a man just as you men can go bananas over an actress!

So, if you care to add a few more descriptive words to your Persuasion page you won't hurt my feelings at all.  I really had no idea Bryan was in it.
Linda

Dear Linda,

I will try to deal with your shocking, cruel attack on my reputation. I would have hoped you never would say, in public, that I have ever been ga ga over a film actress? Pshaw! I suspect that you have no basis for that other than some marginally significant things I might have said about Jennifer Ehle, Halle Berry, Susannah Harker, Julianne Moore, Juliet Aubrey, Justine Waddell, Vanessa Williams, Madelene Stowe (oo-oo, "Madelene Stowe"!), Catherine Zeta-Jones, just about any French or Italian film actress, and some others. And, things said in the distant past should be left in the distant past, don't you agree? I mean, those ga ga feelings I might have expressed for Rita Hayworth, Heddy Lamar, or Rosanna Podesta should be overlooked if not forgotten. - Give it a rest.

Dear Ash,

Well, now back to less formal first names, I do apologize for any cutting remarks I may have inadvertently wrote - but if the shoe fits.... [Why can't I stop giggling?]

I shall do penace by regularly reviewing all the MV pages so as to not make that mistake again.  There will that do?

What a list of actresses!  I really didn't think you were that "bad"!  I had only remembered a couple of names.  You must be careful of such things, or you might end up like me - ordering videos on the spur of the moment just because...!

Linda, who will write a review after viewing P-BBC

PS - all your links to that other web site, devoted to filmed versions of the novels, are broken.

The grandson found an umbrella to play with for a few minutes, but now is pulling on my arm, so if this is garbled forgive me. PS

Dear Linda,

What a disaster!

As you say, that wonderful web site devoted to the filmed versions of Jane Austen's novels is no more. What did we do to deserve this? I am not saying we should kill the messenger or somethin', but - well - jee-eeze! I can't find it on the search engines. - maybe this is all temporary - can anyone help?

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