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1/7/02 Cheryl - New Year's Greeting - and a quiz

Dear Voices,

The best New Year's wish I can give is that we all have a profoundly boring 2002. And that all those doing dangerous duty stay safe.

The New Year is a time to ponder the imponderables of life, so I give you my list:

• A: What did Charlotte and Mr. Collins give Elizabeth and Darcy for a wedding present?
• B: Don't you think Mrs. Ferrars needs some Prozac or Zoloft or something?
• C: Does Colonel Brandon find it a bit boring to hunt grouse and woodcock instead of tigers?
• D: Is it just me or was there a lot more chemistry between Chow Yun Fat and Michelle Yeoh than Emma and Hugh?
• E: Aren't Fanny and Edmund exactly the sort of couple you'd expect to see coming out of a bondage club some night?
• F: How did Jane's horse get back home from Netherfield after Jane became incapacitated?
• G: What exactly does Admiral Croft mean when he says "The peace has come too soon for that younker."?
• H: Betcha Captain Benwick gets all the groovy chicks with that grieving fiancé thing he has going.
• I: Was Jane really a "burly Yorkshireman with a beard like a Rhododendron"?
• J: Who would be the worst actress to play Elizabeth Bennet? (Of the right age/looks group.) Ditto Darcy.
• K: What would a Baz Luhrmann Austen-movie be like?

And on a more general note:

• 1: Did anyone else who saw "Harry Potter and The Sorcerer's Stone" notice that Madame Hooch wears kinky black boots and a mini skirt?
• 2: How did "Lord of The Rings" exactly match my imagination and apparently just about everyone else's too?
• 3: Isn't the Segway about the dumbest idea since the moped? (And you remember how successful IT was.)
• 4: Who do you dislike enough to nominate for the Argentine Presidency?
• 5: What if we told India and Pakistan that whichever one resolved the Israeli/Palestinian conflict first gets Kashmir?
• 6: In the wake of September 11th, would Gore have emerged as a Churchill or a Chamberlain?
• 7: What was the most boring sporting event of the year?
• 8: Don't you think Shrek was overrated?
• 9: What was the best substitute for a Jane Austen movie to come out this year?

Best wishes,
Cheryl

1/7/02 Ashton Dennis - The Meister achieves an A+

Dear Folks,

I am sorry to spoil everybody's fun, but here are all the correct answers after only a single try. Sigh - it can be very lonely being the Meister.

• A: What did Charlotte and Mr. Collins give Elizabeth and Darcy for a wedding present?
  answer: Jane's horse; Collins acquired her in his marriage contract with Sir William.
• B: Don't you think Mrs. Ferrars needs some Prozac or Zoloft or something?
  answer: Only if a "Prozac" or a "Zoloft" is, coincidentally, the name of an Eastern-European pistol, in which case one or the other would have come in handy when she got to know Robert's new wife better.
• C: Does Colonel Brandon find it a bit boring to hunt grouse and woodcock instead of tigers?
  answer: Actually, every time Colonel Brandon found a gun in his hands, he began to fantasize about Willoughby.
• D: Is it just me or was there a lot more chemistry between Chow Yun Fat and Michelle Yeoh than Emma and Hugh?
  answer: Yes, but that is no big deal. I mean, there was a lot more chemistry between even Gary Shandling and Ellen Degenerous.
• E: Aren't Fanny and Edmund exactly the sort of couple you'd expect to see coming out of a bondage club some night?
  answer: Are you talking smack on Fanny Price again? You have been notified that fanny-bashing is not allowed around here! Um-mm - no pun intended.
• F: How did Jane's horse get back home from Netherfield after Jane became incapacitated?
  answer: It's an odd thing - she turned up missing, vanished from her stall! Imagine the Darcys' surprise.
• G: What exactly does Admiral Croft mean when he says "The peace has come too soon for that younker."?
  answer: "Younker" is the German word for an "excited, young virgin standing on a high wall."
• H: Betcha Captain Benwick gets all the groovy chicks with that grieving fiancé thing he has going.
  answer: He did very well at first, but his appeal fell off dramatically when he switched to prose. (Some re-eally bad advice there!)
• I: Was Jane really a "burly Yorkshireman with a beard like a Rhododendron"?
  answer: Yes, Jane Austen really was a "burly Yorkshireman with a beard like a Rhododendron". We know that because we believe everything Blackadder's Baldric tells us.
• J: Who would be the worst actress to play Elizabeth Bennet? (Of the right age/looks group.) Ditto Darcy.
  answer: Sarah Brightman would be the worst choice of an actress to play Elizabeth Bennet and Michael Flatley would be the worst choice of an actor to play Darcy.
• K: What would a Baz Luhrmann Austen-movie be like?
  answer: much better than a Patricia Rozema Austen-movie

Here are my answers to SAT II:

• 1: Did anyone else who saw "Harry Potter and The Sorcerer's Stone" notice that Madame Hooch wears kinky black boots and a mini skirt?
  answer: Um-mm, do you have her number?
• 2: How did "Lord of The Rings" exactly match my imagination and apparently just about everyone else's too?
  answer: Patricia Rozema, Jane Campion, Spike Lee, and Oliver Stone were kept away from the production.
• 3: Isn't the Segway (segue?) about the dumbest idea since the moped? (And you remember how successful IT was.)
  answer: No, Dennis Miller on Monday-Night Football is the dumbest idea since the moped.
• 4: Who do you dislike enough to nominate for the Argentine Presidency?
  answer: Patricia Rozema, Jane Campion, or Oliver Stone
• 5: What if we told India and Pakistan that whichever one resolved the Israeli/Palestinian conflict first gets Kashmir?
  answer: They would have a better chance doing that than in answering the question on all our minds, "paper or plastic?"
• 6: In the wake of September 11th, would Gore have emerged as a Churchill or a Chamberlain?
  answer: chambermaid
• 7: What was the most boring sporting event of the year?
  answer: "Boring sporting event" is an oxymoron.
• 8: Don't you think Shrek was overrated?
  answer: All cartoon characters are overrated - except - well, except Bambi - oh sure, Bambi.
• 9: What was the best substitute for a Jane Austen movie to come out this year?
  answer: Bambi Does Dallas

Sometimes I even amaze myself - scare myself with all that knowledge!

1/7/02 Linda - At Midnight - I am amused!

Dear Cheryl, Bree and Voices,

Grandmamma is sitting here at the computer at the witching hour after putting the little and big ones to bed.

Cheryl all I can contribute at the moment is to say 'thank you' for brightening up my late night though I sincerely wish I had the time and energy to respond fully.

Some details briefly:  my grandson, Alten Thomas Zacharias Reeves, was born January 2, 2002 at 10:37 p.m. weighing in at 8 lbs. 10 oz. & 21 inches long.  That night Gran got 3 hours of sleep and not much more since.  We are all recovering very well including Poppa.  I never saw such a nervous Nellie!

Bree, I am enjoying your comments and I can only refer you to my commmets on MP to my post of 8/21/00. I am afraid that I was quite harsh.  It seems as though we agree on a lot of things.  I rely on Cheryl to keep me on the straight and narrow, because she sees things sometimes that never occur to me.  That is what I like about this place so much.  I learn a lot.
Linda

1/8/02 Bree - response

Hi Linda,

Congratulations on the new addition!  Such a great start to the year!  Of course I don't USUALLY have so much time to watch and re-watch Jane Austen films, but I have been on a blessed, magical 2-week break from teaching!  Back to reality now, but will follow your comments on MP. I don't know why but that is a very important novel.  Don't get me started on the "Emma's"!!!!
Bree

1/8/02 Bruce - Fellowship of the Ring movie

Dear Cheryl, et. al,

I know we’re traveling a bit far from Austen here, but since Cheryl brought up the Fellowship movie, I thought I’d chip in with my two cents worth.

Why can’t filmmakers trust a story? Good, grief. The Lord of the Rings is a children’s novel. It’s an all time best seller. Certainly the American public can be expected to follow the plot without constant, ridiculous, slow motion explication.

The new Lord of the Rings movie, like Boromir, was seduced by power. Just because a filmmaker CAN produce neat special effects doesn’t mean that he should.

The movie opens with a recap of Isuldur cutting the ring from Sauron’s finger. It then reprises this very corny scene over and over and over again during its 3 hour course. Show the action of the novel, Mr. Jackson. Tell the myths.

On the positive side, the sets are very nice. The Shire, Orthanc, Rivendell, Khazadum, and Lothlorien are all suitably spectacular, and seem to have been derived from the Hildebrandt paintings (which may explain why they fit Cheryl’s imagination). The Fellowship members are all suitable for their roles, and those roles go along quite well when the filmmakers allow them to.

When the movie departs from the book (as in the opening scenes and especially in a ridiculous Wizard fight between Saruman and Gandalf) it goes downhill more rapidly than Hermann Maier. I saw it with my son, who has never read the books (shocking, I know), and he thought the same scenes were ridiculous that I did. So it’s not simply Tolkien purism.

The Nazgul were not well done. They were more reminiscent of slimy horror film slashers than ringwraiths. Instead of engendering a terror that makes one freeze, they made one want to run away screaming and saying “yick”. The mood during the trip from Bree to Rivendell was never established.

In Moria, the movie came closer to getting it right, but fell at the last hurdle. After Pippen awakens the drums in the deep, their beat only lasts five seconds or so before degenerating into an interminable action scene. The battle with the troll lasted forever. Had they cut it to 20 seconds and spent the time they saved beating the drums, the movie would have been a lot better.

The orcs and the balrog were overdone as well. Orcs are slightly deformed copies of elves, warped, cruel, but not Return of the Mummy monsters. Also, there was some over-acting, as in the scenes when Bilbo is reluctant to give up the ring. Subtlety is not one of the movies virtues.

In general the acting was good. Gandalf was fine, when he wasn’t overly magical. Galadriel was good, when the special effects crew left her alone. I had no real objection to Arwen’s slightly expanded role. The scenes in elvish with subtitles were well done, and I liked how the elves pronounced Gandalf’s name properly, while the hobbits did not (it’s Gandalv).

The movie’s failure is a failure of story telling. Why must Jackson assume that his viewers will be unable to understand the Ring’s power unless it is made ridiculously explicit? Why can’t he trust the story, which is, after all, beloved by many?

One more thing. I enjoyed the movie anyway, and recommend it to all LOTR fans. Enjoy the good parts and ignore the bad.

1/8/02 Linda - LOTR

Dear Bruce,

Thanks for your comments, but I have a question or two.  Like your son I have never read LOTR or Tolkien and you said something like it was a children's book, but would you recommend it for general reading?  Does it have some 'reflection' in it, or is it purely escapism (but good, interesting escapism)?

I have seen it mentioned a lot on the boards, but never heard of it before the last year or so.  So if you care to upgrade my ignorance I would appreciate it.  From your post it sounds like you have a handle on it, and it has not occurred to me to ask before.  With three Grandkids coming of age, they might find it interesting in a year or two.  And Cheryl feel free to say a few words too.  Thanks.
Linda

1/9/02 Bruce - More LOTR

Dear Linda and Cheryl,

Uncle.  OK.  I admit it.  Lord of the Rings is not a "children's novel".  True: I read it when I was 10.  True: it's beloved of teenagers everywhere.  True: it's a sword and sorcery adventure tale.  But since, along with Austen's and a few others, it's my very favorite book, I didn't mean to knock it by calling it a "children's novel".

By the way, Linda, you'll like LOTR if you like Homer, Greek and Norse Mythology, the fantasy novels of E.R. Eddison, and made up languages.  Many people love LOTR, but others just don't get it.  There doesn't seem to be much middle ground.

1/8/02 Cheryl - Not quite an A+

Dear Bree, Bruce, Linda, & Ashton,

Ashton: I was thinking the Collins might give Elizabeth and Darcy a promise never, ever to come near them again.  And I notice you didn't actually disagree with my suspicions about Fanny and Edmund...hmmm significant I'd say. Is Sarah Brightman an actress? I thought she just sang really annoying new age "songs".  As for Michael Flatley, (assuming he's who I think he is Lord of the Dance or some such, right?) many apologies to all my gay friends, but you have to pick someone who would at least able to fake an interest in girls.  It's like picking Nathan Lane or George Michael.  Start over.

P.S. The closest things I could find are the Praga from Czechoslovakia and the Zwylacka, origin unknown, two blow back automatics. East European enough for you?

Linda: Congrats on the new grand baby.  My boss's 2nd grandbaby is being delivered at 9 AM on Thursday (as God forbid her daughter or the o.b. should be inconvenienced by the birth) so she's going crazy right now.

Bree: I'm afraid Ashton still retains the God-Awfulist Punster title, but not bad.

Bruce: I mostly agree with your criticism, and rather interestingly, you keyed in on almost exactly the same things I did.  But you have to remember that I work in a video store. That means I deal daily with people who find "The Fast and the Furious" gripping and totally believable.  And who look very, very blank when I say "Moulin Rouge" is La Traviata with pop music." or "It's a musical of Camille."  The point of which is that it's not so much that the director didn't trust the original source, but that he can't trust the audience.

And I can't quite agree with you that LOTR is a "children's novel".  Murder, rape, torture, thousands killed, decaying heads being flung over the walls of Minas Tirith, Orcs that eat "man flesh", Ents being burned alive are a children's novel?  The Hobbit yes. Lord of The Rings, no.

Yes, having two minor Gods who are thousands of years old basically hitting each other with big sticks was pretty stupid, wasn't it? And I agree with you about the Ringwraiths, but unfortunately for both of us,I think that's pretty much how ol' JRRT described them.  My major complaints were that they made Frodo into even more of a milksop than he needs to be which is saying something (not defying the Ringwraiths at the Ford and not stabbing the troll) and that they made Gandalf entirely too nice. He's supposed to be "subtle and quick to anger."  You're right about the overdone bit during the Council of Elrond. The expanded role for Saruman bothers the purist in me, but Sauron never appears "on camera" in the book so I suppose they needed a more fleshed out villain.  Saruman looked more like Denethor to me, but maybe that's just me. I liked that each different "race" (species really, don't you think?) pronounced the proper names differently.  They at least had some of the elves with the proper hair color (no blond elves in Tolkien) The Balrog was somewhat too reminiscent of the Id Creature from Forbidden Planet. I think cutting out Tom Bombadil and Gildor was a good move as was introducing Arwen (directly) sometime before the last twenty pages.  As for Merry and Pippin, have you read the National Lampoon's Bored of The Rings?  I think Peter Jackson must have because his characters are more like Moxie and Pepsi.

Over all, the pluses far outweigh the minuses and I think I enjoyed it all the more because I came in with no more expectations than that it couldn't possibly be as bad as the Hannah Barberra musical version.

And I'm appalled that I come across as so much of a science fiction geek that you think I would know a Hildebrandt from a Franzetta (okay, I might, but only by using the Franzetta = tits twice as big as her head rule).  I've always stayed firmly away from any representations of Tolkien because the few I've seen were way far off.  And most other art for that matter, since I can't afford what I like.

And one last observation about a totally different movie:  I got all the way through Jurassic Park III before I realized that Sam Neill's young protégé was the actor who played Henry Crawford in P. Rozema's Mansfield Park. And guess what?  JP III was a better movie pretty much all the way around. How'd you like that on your resume?
Cheryl

1/8/02 Bree - pun competition

Dear Meister,

Regarding the 8/22/00 pun competition and your response, how about "a crock of Crawfords?" (Sorry, couldn't resist - thank God I will be kept busy now with classes!) By the way, a bunch of pheasants is a "Knide".
Bree

1/10/02 Ana Y. - MP & others

Dear Ashton and Bree,

While reading Bree's 1/02/02 post on the MP film, with all the replies, I've realized that I have this old article which I am sure will interest you both: Please, Miramax, Don’t Call It Mansfield Park, by Ron Rosenbaum.
Regards,
Ana

1/11/02 Bree - Thanks

Dear Ana,

The Ron Rosenbaum article was great - so true!  I personally think Fanny is "the Bomb"!

1/10/02 Bree - the Emma survey and another quiz

Dear Meister of all Meisters,

Where did I get the photo?  I thought you put it in!  It's wonderful.  I don't own a scanner, so that just popped up there and made my day!

I won't admit to remembering L Frank, but maybe Ruth Plumly Thompson, who continued the Oz books after his death - at any rate, I never dressed like Dorothy!

Yesyesyes - let's do an Emma survey.  I have only seen 2 of the 4 filmed versions.  I know where to get one more (library), but which is the 4th (including the Kate Beckinsale one and the Gwynneth Paltrow version)?  I'll have to go for Bernard Hepton as Mr. W.  Just to hear him say "a very little bit of apple tart won't hurt you".  I can collapse just thinking of a bowl of smooth gruel, thin, but not TOO thin. I think Prunella Scales and Sophie Thompson did a great job with Miss Bates, but I'll have to see the other versions.  Let's keep this survey in mind for a long term project (if we are still able to place our trembling hands on the keyboard in 2010)!

Unanswered questions, not that it really matters, but ... What did Elizabeth call Mr. Darcy in private after they were married?  I can't picture her addressing him as "Fitzwilliam" somehow. Maybe Fitzbill?  or just plain Bill?  Probably subsided into the all encompassing "my dya-a".

Also, what did Emma Thompson do with the horse (Queen Mab) which Willoughby gave Marianne?  No mention of it was made in S&S.  Things to ponder during a sleepless night ...

1/10/02 Ashton - a bit of good news and a bit of bad

Dear Bree,

Well, if you feel that way, then the Emma All-Stars Ballot will be posted in the next couple of days. That is the only good news.

Besides the two you mentioned, actors in the version starring Doran Godwin will be All-Star candidates. The first bit of bad news is that after you see that version, you will feel compelled to abandon your support of Bernard Hepton - sorry. You cannot guess the fourth version? Gee, I guess that means you are Clueless - more bad news.

I am saddened to learn of your flat refusal to dress like Dorothy. I guess that means that the pigtails are out?

1/11/02 Bree - No bad news

Dear Ashton,

Well I have seen Clueless although for the life of me, I thought it had only the most superficial resemblance to Emma.  That leaves me with only one more to see.  What year was the Doran version made?  I'll go get it immediately!  But my loyalty to Bernard Hepton remains as constant as my aversion to a basin of smooth gruel.

I will look forward to the Emma survey, but can't participate until I have seen all the productions.  Another thing I would enjoy dissecting ad nauseam is the 1979 version of P&P and the A&E version.  Of course the latter is the final word, as far as I'm concerned, but certain performances in BBC version were superb.  Quite frankly, I thought Priscilla somebody, who played Mrs. Bennett, actually was superior to Alison Steadman, God love her, who mugged and hollered and chewed up the scenery.  Even though I liked Ben Whitrow's Mr. Bennett (and his first name was????), Moray Watson is not to be ignored.  He was super.  Also Barbara Shelley as Aunt Gardner.  However, their Lady Catherine was so far off the mark it wasn't funny.  Well, you see how it can go on and on and I gotta go to class.  Til soon!

1/12/02 Keita Kawanishi - [keita@sfsu.edu] I need your explanation

To everyone,

I don't understand the content of this URL.  I need radical explanation from you.

1/12/02 Meister - What's the mystery?

Dear Keita,

The content of this URL is clearly described on the home page.

1/17/02 Linda - A (late) reply to Bruce, Cheryl, and Bree

Dear Folks,

Bruce said:

By the way, Linda, you'll like LOTR if you like Homer, Greek and Norse Mythology, the fantasy novels of E.R. Eddison, and made up languages.  Many people love LOTR, but others just don't get it.  There doesn't seem to be much middle ground.

Well, I will give it the old college try!  I have a movie The Odyssey which I have not yet seen.  Starting there I will see if it even sparks my interest.  I would like to try reading some of it.  I was simply never encouraged in school or elsewhere to delve into it.  I am beginning to believe that a lot of subjects are lost on us because we are not properly introduced to them.

Cheryl said:

Linda: Congrats on the new grand baby. My boss's 2nd grandbaby is being delivered at 9 AM on Thursday (as God forbid her daughter or the o.b. should be inconvenienced by the birth) so she's going crazy right now.

Thanks, and now he is growing like the proverbial weed.  I know what you mean about "imconveniencing the o.b.".  My sister's stepdaughter went that route, and we went "arggh" because we go the 'natural' route.  The midwives did an excellent job and all went well.  They do have a doctor as backup if needed.  Otherwise it is left up to the mother and midwife as to what is done.  My daughter is trying to get too much done while she is off though.

Bree said:

Congratulations on the new addition!  Such a great start to the year!  Of course I don't USUALLY have so much time to watch and re-watch Jane Austen films, but I have been on a blessed, magical 2-week break from teaching!  Back to reality now, but will follow your comments on MP. I don't know why but that is a very important novel.  Don't get me started on the "Emma's"!!!!

Thanks, and I hope to get some reading and studying done because Grandma is taking a week off.  She has to go all the way to NJ to visit a friend to get away.  Otherwise, if I stay too close at hand, I might be called on.

I did preview all the "Emma" film's except Clueless to refresh my memory for the ballot.  I see what you mean!  In spite of the Meister liking the Doran Godwin version the only actress I liked in it was Molly Smudgon who played Mrs. Goddard.  I remember Molly on Are You Being Served?.  I am afraid I cared for none of the rest of it.  Though I did not prefer Gwyneth, Jeremy or Toni Collette I did like the rest of that cast.  It was a hard choice to make between Mark Strong and Paul Rudd though.  Another hard choice was Polly Walker and Olivia Williams.

Now off to do some serious packing - any book and/or movie recommendations?
Linda

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