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1/17/02 Linda - Mark Twain

Dear Voices,

I only caught bits and pieces of the PBS program on Mark Twain this week and was too busy to even get a tape into the machine.  I was wondering if anyone else caught it. The Meister reported some unpleasant words attributed to Twain about Our Lady.  Upon review, his words to the effect that 'everytime he read Pride and Prejudice he wanted to' do something awful, made me wonder about his seriousness.  It sounds like he did a lot of P&P reading.

What I really want to know is if there was anything said that would shed some light on what he said.  For instance, the dates of his quotes are at the end of his life, would that make a difference?  I also get a sense of jealously in his tone, as if he knew she was brilliant, but he could not compete so you cast slurs.  I may be wrong.  I may have completely misunderstood what he said; I have been known to do that.
Linda

1/17/02 Ashton Dennis - Ken Burns's Mark Twain

Dear Linda,

I followed that mini-series fairly closely and can answer your question. No notice was made in that series of Twain's literary criticism - neither his over-the-top remarks about Jane Austen nor his more famous, hilarious criticism of James Fenimore Cooper.

It seems to me that Ken Burns's career presents us with a mixed bag. His Civil War was brilliant and important. His Lewis and Clark and New York were useful, but his Baseball and his Jazz, while not bad, were not of much value. I know a lot about baseball and nothing about jazz and I did not learn a thing from either series. Both series were uninformative, worthless panegyrics. What worse thing can be said about a documentary? Well, I guess a worse thing would be that it misinforms - I don't think his do that.

Burns's Mark Twain is excellent (even though no mention is made of our Lady) and it now ranks #2 on my list. I learned a great deal that was new to me about Clemens ("Twain"), and found that what I already had known was placed in better context. I gained a great deal of respect for the man, so much so that I am now perfectly ready to forgive him for his transgression on the sentiments of this bulletin board. Any African-American that objects to Huckleberry Finn, and tries to have it banned or bowdlerized, needs to have his head examined. It may be that Finn, taken together with Pudd'nhead Wilson, and Following the Equator, establish Twain as the most astute, most progressive, and most compelling commentator on race that this nation has ever produced. And that would establish his supremacy in the world. Apparently, Twain once said that he was not "an" American, rather he was "the" American. After watching that mini-series, I think I might agree - on a number of levels.

And, what a fascinating life story - Oh, Linda, watch it when you can - You would be a southern woman watching the biography of a southern man, so you may have the context to better understand and appreciate what is being presented.

It is true that Jane Austen was the superior artist - at a level that Twain never could have attained, but I doubt that he ever tried. I think of him as more of a commentator than an artist; although, I recognize that the boundary between the two is blurred. I now think of Twain as someone trying to work through the meanings of his family life, his background, the identity of his American nation, and the meaning of "humanity". I guess I think him more political than Jane Austen would have ever wanted to be. I also think him a bit of an Anglophobe (most Americans were then) and it was that which blocked his view of our Lady's work.

1/28/02 Linda - Mark Twain - Part 1

Dear Voices,

I made it to NJ just fine and the weather is beautiful.  So beautiful in fact that my friend took me for a long ride in his '89 red Corvette convertible (top up - I'm chicken in 60 degrees).

I happened to check the TV guide last night and discovered that "Mark Twain - Part 1" was starting at 9 on the NYC station.  I nodded for a second or two, but made it to the end.  Part 2 will be on next Saturday night.  I thought I would send along my thoughts while the memory was fresh.  I had to make notes like mad so I could remember some things.

Mark T. won my heart with this statement about his future wife:  "I admired her brains as much as her looks."  Her Daddy was rich and I wonder if that had any bearing.

Another quote:  "Great books are wine, mine are water; everybody drinks water."  You figure out where our Jane fits in.  I would like to think that Jane is wine.

At some point in his engagement/early marriage period MT said:  "I am so happy, I want to scalp somebody."  When I heard that I remembered his "shin-bone" remark about Jane Austen.  I discussed the two statements with my Southern friend here and we agreed that we recognize such things as Southern humor.  It will sound strange to others but that is how some of us are.  My friend suggested the following in the same line of sayings:  I'd kill for that voice (or whatever).  We don't actually mean "kill" - it is simply the way we express ourselves. I want to call it "backwards humor" - we say the opposite of what we mean. My friend agreed but she really wanted to read his words in context to really be sure.  Now I think I should also.

Ken Burns said some nice things about Huck Finn concerning the race issue, so much so that I want to read the book to see for myself.  My dear Meister, I think you might be right. To be continued ... next Saturday.
Linda

1/28/02 Ashton - GO BACK - GO BACK! SAVE YOURSELF!

Dear Linda,

Blast that Ken Burns! I have been reading Mark Twain ever since Burns's damned mini-series appeared, and I can feel myself being pulled over to the dark side. I was much happier when I could hate Twain for the things he spewed about our Lady.

So far, I have read Pudd'nhead Wilson, The Diary of Adam, The Diary of Eve, and Is Shakespeare Dead?, and I re-read Huckleberry Finn. I am sad to report that all are excellent, but I am determined to continue reading until I find something most ill-advised. I am certain to find several such things.

Incidentally, Huckleberry Finn is as much about poverty as race. Pudd'nhead Wilson is a very important book about race. Some African-Americans are offended by the liberal use of the "n-word" in Huckleberry Finn, but they are also offended by the fact that an adult-male African-American is portrayed as being led about by a very young white-boy. I have my own counter-views on that and it will be very interesting to learn your slant on those things.

Nobility carries a price - imposes obligations, or so they say. Your obligation is to visit Ground Zero and report back to the us, the benighted Male Voices. We don't want to hear any fancy excuses - we don' need no stinkin' excuses.

1/23/02 Linda - Peggy Lee and Jane Austen

Dear Voices,

As I read the obituary for Peggy Lee, whose singing I have enjoyed through the years, I thought of our Lady when I saw the following: Whitney Balliett, longtime jazz critic for The New Yorker wrote,

"Many singers confuse shouting with emotion. Peggy Lee sends her feelings down the quiet center of her notes. She does not carry a tune; she elegantly follows it."

Could one say:

"Many writers confuse explicitness with emotion. Jane Austen sends her feelings down the quiet center of her pages. She does not carry a passion; she elegantly follows it."

Peggy is still loved and will be missed by many.
Linda

From the Meister: Interesting! I always liked Peggy Lee; I thought her beautiful, and, more importantly, I thought her sexy. I also very much liked her singing style and can think of no one else with a style that is similar. Your quote describes that style I think. And, yes, I agree that there is a little something that reminds us of Jane Austen - that understated passion tempered with understanding.

1/22/02 Bree - Emma '72

Dear Voices,

I have recently devoted some time to viewing the BBC version of Emma with Doran Godwin.  It is difficult to compare it to the '95 and '96 versions, simply because a 4-hour miniseries is far better able to develop and expand even minor characters than a movie lasting a couple of hours. (I don't include Clueless in this competition).

I am amazed that Emma-72 has received so few votes up to now.  Perhaps a majority of viewers are not looking for the same thing I am, namely fidelity to the book.  How can voters not see the difference?  Debbie Bowen, who received 6 votes so far, didn't just PLAY Harriet Smith, she was Harriet.  And Constance Chapman as Miss Bates was superb - her character had far more visibility also, besides just being a background buzz and the turning point of Emma's self-examination during the interchange on Box Hill.  The other two movies did not develop minor characters, such as Miss B., Mrs. Weston (poor Miss Taylor as was) and even Mr. Woodhouse.  Donald Eccles was marvelous in that role, but I will say again that the other actors might have also shone more had they been given stronger roles.  All Mr. Woodhouse did in '95 and '96 was make some passing remarks about food and bad weather, but in '72 he was an entity.  I know Doran Godwin can begin to get on one's nerves, but she did a more than creditable job as Emma.  John Carson's Mr. Knightley wins hands down as far as I'm concerned.  In the novel, he was 16 years older than Emma, and totally an adult.  Their love developed over the years, after many hours of conversation and non-romantic association.  It was not some kind of Danielle Steele type of love story.  Timothy Peters as Mr. Elton was the best of the three, if only that he didn't look like the other two (who looked alike!)  He was really good and I think best embodied what JA had in mind with his character.  I must re-view the latter films again, but am having one hard time choosing Mrs. Elton.  All of them were wonderful, with Elisa Donovan having the most opportunity to build up the role.

I guess it is like comparing an 8-course gourmet meal made at home to a nice hour lunch in a good restaurant.  I speak as a faithful Austen devotee - read Pride and Prejudice for the first time in high school, am now a grandmother. I think Jane would agree with me as to the best version of Emma so far.  Who knows what the future holds!

1/22/02 Ashton - Godwin and Morton

Dear Bree,

It is gratifying to finally meet someone who likes Emma-72 as much as myself.

You will notice that, currently, Doran Godwin has only one vote - that is from my ballot. Judging from your posting, that tally will not change soon. I noticed that you said, "I know Doran Godwin can begin to get on one's nerves, but ...". Actually, Emma Woodhouse gets on my nerves; so, your observation may not detract from Godwin's interpretation - on the contrary.

I don't want to get away from the main point, which is that I very much agree with you. I especially recommend Eccles interpretation of Mr. Woodhouse. That strikes me as nearly perfect. One of the moments that offended me in the Paltrow-version is where the celluloid Mr. Woodhouse calls his grandchild "a source of infection"; that was perfectly out of character with Jane Austen's version.

I wonder though about the character of Miss Smith. Notice that Samantha Morton is the early leader in our poll. I think that may be right for reasons I will try to explain. First of all, Morton is an excellent actress, at least as accomplished as, say, Kate Beckensale. Secondly, she plays the character far differently than the other actresses in the category. Her interpretation is that Harriet is intended as uncultured and uneducated but with an underlying intelligence and elegance. We have to ask ourselves, I think, what is it that attracts Emma Woodhouse to Harriet and compels her to fashion a protege. Morton provides us with an explanation. Also, while Harriet Smith seems quite compliant, she does eventually show confidence and initiative in her thoughts and actions regarding Mr. Knightley and then Mr. Martin. Morton shows those qualities, properly controlled, existed from the very beginning. What say you?

1/25/02 Bree - Debbie/Samantha

Dear Ashton,

I just re-viewed Emma-95 and did like Samantha Morton's interpretation of Harriet, but Debbie Bowen seemed to me to personify the fluffy, distracted, Emma-worshipping girl that JA drew with her pen.  Both of these interpetations were better than Toni Collette, she's fine but not as Harriet.  It is true that Samantha Morton did have a budding sense of self and judgment, but in the book, Harriet married Robert Martin and so ended her association with Emma (which as I recall both felt to be appropriate and no more was said).  I just thought that Debbie deserved far more votes than she is getting.  I agree with you about Mr. W.; Donald Eccles was brilliant, and his lines came almost completely from the pages of the novel.  Did you notice though, (at least in my version of) Emma-72, no mention was ever made of the fact that Frank Churchill bought the pianoforte for Jane, nor did they include the word game which Frank used to convey to Jane his "blunder."  I did like the way Emma-95 opened and closed with the henhouse robberies, which actually didn't detract from the action since it was entirely plausible.  I still say that only John Carson was the "real" Mr. Knightley.  Mark Strong is an enormously likeable person, but he is too young and forceful.  Also, John Carson acted like an adult the whole time, more than his brother John, or Mr. Weston, or even Mr. Woodhouse!  Well, I'm going to take another look at Emma-96 and then vote seriously.  This is so much more fun to worry about than taxes, bills, terrorism and losing weight!!!  Thanks for setting it up!

1/28/02 Bree - Finally voting

Dear Ashton,

Since you have been kind enough to express interest in my opinions on this important ballot (as Miss Bates would say, "so very obliging"), I have made haste to vote while all the interpretations were fresh in my mind.  (You did say we could vote more than once, so maybe I will go back again and just vote for who I like.) I again point up the difficulty in judging '95 and '96, two movie length versions, against '72, which was a 4-hour miniseries, with far more detail and minutiae preserved.

While Doran Godwin was an admirable Emma, she came to look and sound like a plucked chicken after a couple of hours; also she was condescending to Mr. W., which the real Emma was not. Gwynneth is captivating, but I gave it to Kate, who does not weary and, to me, was more realistic.

You already know John Carson's Mr. Knightley was most faithful to the novel, although Jeremy Northam and Mark Strong were ever so much younger and more romantic.  Too bad ... that just wasn't Mr. Knightley.  Bernie Hepton was so adorable as Mr. Woodhouse, but you were right - Donald Eccles just jumped right out of the pages of the novel!

You have no category for Mr. Weston, but since I chose Samantha Bond as Mrs. W., I liked the actor who played her husband. Actually, all of the Mrs. W's were good, but Ellen Dryden's farmwife-ish appearance detracted somewhat from her role.  She looked more the type to play a servant, or perhaps Mrs. Goddard (or maybe even "cottager's wife" in Lovers' Vows!).

As you know, I gave Harriet to Debbie Bowen.

While I liked Robert East as Frank Churchill, Raymond Coulthard was by far the best - Ewan MacGregor didn't have much chance to develop in his characterization.  As for Jane Fairfax, I puzzled over it for a while - Polly Walker is a great favorite of mine, but in '96, her character barely existed (not her fault).  Ania Marson wasn't bad, but had an unfortunate, corsetted way of speaking which detracted from her role. So Olivia got it by default.

My greatest difficulties were with Miss Bates and Mrs. Elton.  Everybody did such a marvelous job that I had to give my choice a lot of thought. Deep down, I knew that Fiona Walker did the most faithful interpretation, BUT, again, had much more exposure and many more lines than the other two.  Lucy Robinson is just always good, and Juliet Stevenson, while making a bit too much of a caricature of Mrs. Elton, was so wonderful, I was sorely tempted ... but ended up thinking who Jane would have picked.  Miss Bates ... this was tough!  I ruled out Sophie Thompson because again, her characterization became a caricature, and she wasn't old enough (I noticed that in '96, the whole thing became a bit of a caricature.)  Constance Chapman gave a praiseworthy interpretation, but I love Pruny Scales, and voted for her!!!

I'm glad this ballot gave me a reason to see all the Emma's again.  I found that Emma-'96 had many faults I had forgotten - for example Toni Collette as Harriet.  Forgive me, but she looked pregnant in half her scenes, and awful in all of them.  She does not have the looks or figure for regency fashions, nor did she at all display the personality traits of Harriet Smith.  Badly done, casting director!  Also, you may have noticed that in two instances, Harriet and Mr. Knightley actually grab hold of Emma and yank her around, which simply wasn't the way of it back then.  Oh well ... did you note that Phyllida Law played old Mrs. Bates in both '95 and '96? Well, maybe I will vote again, just for whom I like.  Should we have Sue Birtwistle's people call our people?

1/29/02 Ashton - because, as we all know ...

Dear Bree,

You're right, Fiona Walker ('72) was the best Mrs. Elton; although, Juliet Stevenson did a creditable job. There is one memorable scene in Emma-'72 not attempted in either of the more recent films. That is the passage in which Mrs. Elton visits Knightley and manipulates him into hosting a garden party. Walker interpreted this passage as a flirtation on her character's part, and she also allowed the presumptuous Mrs. Elton to imagine that Knightley returned the attentions in kind. I had never interpreted the passage in that way, but Walker was quite correct in her interpretation I think. (By the bye, who do we credit, the actor or the director?)

That is an example of films and actors at their best; I think they are at their best when they present an interpretation that allows the audience to understand something new about the author's intent. I think that both Bowen and Collette present a view of Harriet Smith that is consistent with the orthodox view, but Morton interprets the same character in a new way - and, in a way that may be more consistent with our Lady's intent. However, you and I may never quite agree on that.

I hasten to add that you and I might only have a single, full-blown disagreement; that is highlighted where you write,

"You already know John Carson's Mr. Knightley was most faithful to the novel, although Jeremy Northam and Mark Strong were ever so much younger and more romantic.  Too bad ... that just wasn't Mr. Knightley."

In fact, I voted for Northam because I believe that Northam's interpretation is the only one that is romantic enough to properly represent the novel. This is an example of a component part of my long-standing feud with Jane-Austen orthodoxy; I think her writing as basically passionate and romantic. I have found a few - very few - persons who agree with me, Linda most notably. A couple of years ago, Linda took the point on a project to parse the novels in order to uncover all the passionate and romantic passages. Here is what we did for Emma. I hope you will get a chance to look that over and then get back to us on this "too romantic" thing. (Notice especially, the reference to Knightley's "youthful" appearance in our first selection from the novel.) I was pleased but amazed that Linda could do this sort of thing because, as we all know, women are neither as romantic nor as passionate as men.

1/29/02 Cheryl - Thoughts on Mark Twain and Emma-films

Dear Linda and Ashton;

I confess I didn't bother to watch the second half of Mark Twain partly because his last years were nothing but misery to him and partly due to some annoyance with the first half which devoted about 10 minutes to the very important years Twain spent as a riverboat pilot and as a newspaperman/layabout/prospector out west. Much of what he wrote was based on those experiences as much or even more than those of his boyhood.  Then there was the attempt to categorize Tom Sawyer as an "innocent" novel (yes, very innocent what with murders, child abuse, drunkenness and I think some arson)  and the flat out mistaken claim that Clemens never used "Mark Twain" until he went west.

I have plodded through all of Twain's fiction at least once, even most of Joan of Arc (oops, not quite, I've never gotten around to reading the entire "Tom Sawyer" series)  but honestly, I can't say I enjoy more than a story here or there. The Invalid's Tale is very funny, if you have to heart to think a corpse and some limburger cheese are funny.  But it's his non-fiction that's truly remarkable.  The Innocents Abroad, Roughing It, Life On The Mississippi, A Tramp Abroad, Following The Equator, etc.are wonderful.

I was glad that Burns decided not to take pot shots at Olivia Langdon as most of Twain's biographers do.  Olivia had so little success influencing his drinking, smoking, and bad investment habits I've always thought that it was stretching things a bit to lay all of Twain's unsuccessful writings on her.  Many biographers have also pretended that the TB which was eating away Olivia's spine wasn't serious and that her ill-health was somatic.  Linda:  That Olivia's daddy was rich may or may not have influence Twain, but consider that a group of newspapers ponied up the equivalent of $75,000 to put him on the Quaker City then paid him for his correspondence on top of that, and  that the "The Innocents Abroad" was a best seller.  While Twain was wooing Olivia, he was definitely "flush" to use his own slangy way.

Twain and race is an interesting issue.  To my mind, there's little doubt that Twain was, by modern standards a racist.  That is while he believed the slaves should be freed and given rights, and would defend those rights vehemently, that's not to say that he believed they could ever be "equal" to whites, or that he wanted one in his house on a social call.  This doesn't make him any less admirable, quite the opposite.  I trust a man who does the right thing whether he likes it or not.  He did of course absolutely hate Indians, though nothing that I've found in his writing gives a clue as to why he calls them dirty, shiftless and beggarly.

Ashton said,

"... but they are also offended by the fact that an adult-male African-American is portrayed as being led about by a very young white-boy."

This is the most important reason for Huckleberry Finn to be kept intact for future generations.  Painful and humiliating as it may be, it's important for all Americans to remember that once upon a time 30 year old black man with a wife and children would no more be expected or allowed to take charge of a 16 year old white boy than my dog.  And it's morally wrong to pretend it wasn't so.

This all segues us easily in the "Great" debate of my house:  what is the "Great American Novel"?  The Scarlet Letter, Huckleberry Finn, The Great Gatsby, The Sound And The Fury, Valley of The Dolls, Beloved?   Any nominations???

And speaking of nominations, as I've only ever seen Clueless and Gwenyth Paltrow's Emma, I must decline to vote.  As for those of you who can get older stuff through your library system or catch it on cable:  Well, bully for you!! (Not that I'm bitter.) If I want it, I'd better be prepared to buy it.  And since I didn't get Persuasion for Christmas, that's what I'm asking for for my birthday!
Cheryl

1/30/02 Ashton - " 'Freedom' is just another word for 'nothing else to lose'."

Dear Cheryl,

You post a lot of good stuff at this place, but then there are those unexplained times when you post this sort of thing. I mean, there are your unexcused, inexcusable bashings of Fanny Price and I seem to remember a time when you tried to explain that Bill Gates was a great man. (At least, I think I remember such a thing, but maybe I am drunk too.) However, nothing compares to the absolutely perfect error of calling Twain a racist.

I am going to ask you to explain the unexplainable, but first I will establish that Twain is the exact, 180 degree opposite of a racist. That's easy, because a racist, by definition, is a biological determinist and Twain, if nothing else, was the perfect cultural determinist. In fact, the thrust of his treatment of the enslaved African-American was the impact of the culture of slavery on the slave and the slave owner.

The entire thrust of Huckleberry Finn is Huck's slow realization of Jim's humanity and situation. First, Huck must overcome his culturally imposed attitudes about slaves and slavery. In the process, he will display all the behaviors of the white southerner of those times, and then shed them one by one. It is painful for the reader to first see those attitudes displayed, but the reward comes to the reader with Huck's epiphany. This is a painful and dark novel that lies well beyond the courage and understanding of most writers.

I think, though, that my point is best made with a study of Twain's Pudd'nhead Wilson. In that book, a slave woman is the focus at first. An interesting thing about her is that she is only 1/16th African, so she has the appearance of a white woman, but the language, beliefs, and behavior of a slave. Her new-born son is only 1/32nd African, but, because he is born to a slave woman, he is a slave. She does not want her child to experience slavery, so she switches him with the boy recently born to her master. (How that is done is made plausible by Twain, but is not relevant to our discussion.) So, a 32/32nds white boy is raised as a slave and the boy technically a slave is raised to be the slaves' master. The master goes to Yale for a few years, but is a hopeless wastrel and a racist. He will eventually sell the slave that is his mother down the river in order to pay his gambling debts. The other boy becomes the typical ignorant, deferential slave with all the diction, superstition, and lack of privileges thereto pertaining. At the end, the issue is resolved when the true identities are revealed. The master is now recognized as a slave and is sold down the river - an amazing ending for one of the cruelest, most racist slave holders in fiction. The former slave is restored to his birthright as the heir of wealth, but it is too late for him. He cannot bear to live in white society because of his conditioning and the novel ends as he is struggling to find some kind of peace and accommodation - we sense that he will fail. I defy you to point to a more complete example of cultural determinism.

Huck is the leader of his two-man expedition with Jim because they are on Finn turf in a sense. Jim had been raised a slave and that means he led a sheltered life, free from full knowledge of the greater world. Huck and his Pap, on the other hand, had been free as birds - far freer than any slave holder - because they were white underclass living on the edge. " 'Freedom' is just another word for 'nothing else to lose'." So, Huck knew how to lie just enough and to steal just enough to get by and still retain some dignity and a sense of self-worth. Also, while Jim and Huck started out with a sound plan, neither had been that far away from home; so, they needed to frequently reconnoiter and gather intelligence. Obviously, only Huck could do that with impunity. - And, besides, it is unlikely that Jim could ever have been as free with the truth as Huck needed to be in his information gathering. There is another aspect to the novel - it reminds a little bit of The Heart of Darkness - but, that is another discussion.

1/30/02 Linda - Just hold on please

Dear Voices,

Listen, folks, so it's my birthday - I have a luncheon date with a friend from RoP, the weather is threatening a wintry mix of rain and ice, and there are protest gatherings set for the next 4 days in NYC with close security on the incoming bridges, tunnels and all over the place. and you want me to what???  That was on the news late last night.  On top of that are you aware of the reputation of NY drivers?

Cheryl, Bree, and Ash - you all have said some mighty interesting things on Mark Twain and Emma, and I have some comments but they will have to wait until I get home, that is if I make it through the security at Newark airport.  My friend and I have a date for 'Tea' at a tea room on Friday, weather permitting.  I will be so disappointed if the weather turns extremely bad.  Now I must be off.
Linda

From the Meister: So, you want to be excused because you are meeting with someone from RoP? - RoP?! - Who are you, Yankee, and what have you done with Linda?

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