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4/29/02 Bree - Mary Wollstonecraft and her Day

Dear Ashton,

I am feeling illiterate right now since I haven't read any of Mary Wollenstonecraft (I barely have time to write her whole name!)  My classics reading usually includes (but is not limited to) Dickens, Thackeray, G. Eliot, not so many Brontes (does that make me a Brontesauras?) Elizabeth Gaskell, LM Alcott.  I also greatly like an almost anonymous authoress (British) who wrote under the name "Elizabeth", and was actually the wife of a German Graf.  After he died, she returned to England and married the brother of Bertrand Russell.  Actually, the screenplay of Enchanted April was based on her own book and play of the same name.  It is hard to come by her books now.  I had a dealer in Boston who used to contact me every time he got one of her books, but out here I have to look around the Internet to find any.

What would you suggest would be a good starting place in reading Mary WSC?  I wouldn't dare post on Mary Wollstonecraft Day til I have read at least a paragraph!  help?

4/29/02 Ashton - Nn-nn-no! you don't have to go to all that trouble.

Dear Bree,

The idea is not to emulate Mary Wollstonecraft's particular views; rather, the idea is to vent your own feelings and ideas. Since Mary W. was so radical, you can say anything you damn well please on that day. So, say anything you damn well please. I am trying to say that the only thing you really need to know is that anything goes on that day.

Again, you don't need these things, but I will give you some links just in case. I have written quite a bit about Mary W. on these pages; refer to this part of the index for links to those things. Also, the page of references contains an entire section of books and references by or about Mary Wollstonecraft. Also, Mary was the mother of Mary Shelley and the wife of William Godwin who was the author of Caleb Williams, among many other things. Linda has recently called our attention to another biography of Mary W.

4/30/02 Linda - I am pitiable indeed!

Dear Bree,

I printed out A Vindication of the Rights of Woman in February, 2000.  I have only managed to read a couple of chapters so far. (It can be found online; here is the link.) Also, not to mention the 200+ books scattered around my room waiting to be read.

I did see Enchanted April and enjoyed it.  Tell me more about "Elizabeth" the author.  I shall see what I can find online too.
Linda

5/3/02 Bree - MWD

Dear Dashton,

When I get a break between classes I must go into Wollstonecraft territory - I'm sure I will like it!  I have a daughter graduating from college in a couple of weeks, the joint is jumpin'.  However, I forsee myself becoming a fan.  Thanks for the links.
Your friend,
D. Bree

4/23/02 Linda - Mark Twain again, and Harriet Shelley

Dear Voices,

While browsing a bookshop in New Orleans, I found a 4 volume set of various essays, etc. of Mark Twain. I bought them all, I couldn't help myself. Of particular interest was the article "In Defense of Harriet Shelley".  The books (among others I purchased) are packed for the return trip home so I can't get my hands on it at the moment, so my comments will be sketchy.  I admire Twain's writing, his 'defense' was wonderful, and it was in rebuttal to a biography of Shelley which he shredded.  He included comments on Godwin and his daughter, Mary Shelley.  When I can get to it I will post quotes, etc.  I can hardly wait to read the rest of what he wrote.  I can only apologize for what I thought about his work prior to our study of Pudd'nhead Wilson when we started to do more than scratch the surface.

More later, but I just had to post because I am so excited about my 'find'!
Linda

4/24/02 Cheryl - Mark Twain, Harriet Shelley, and James Fenimore Cooper

Dear Linda,

I hope you had a good weekend in New Orleans.  After reading your post last night, I had to grab "Literary Essays" and read "In Defense of Harriet Shelley" again.  The nasty things we say here about P. Rozema are nothing to what Twain has to say about the author of the book.  It's interesting that, despite his "barkeeper in heaven" comment Twain had a very rigid set of morals, particularly sexual morals.  These predated his "reformation" by Olivia, or so I would guess based on his version of Abelard and Heloise and his reaction to Titian's Venus in "The Innocents Abroad."

I hope the book you bought contains Twain's essay on James Fenimore Cooper.  It's worth the price of admission alone. Cheryl

From the Meister: You are very cruel - to mention Twain's criticism of Cooper. What will Linda think now? Actually, I was thinking about that essay when I was criticizing Caleb Williams. Twain would have loved doing that and he would have made us howl. Actually, he mentioned Cooper while bad-mouthing Jane Austen.

4/25/02 Linda - Twain on Cooper

Dear Cheryl,

Yes, that article on J. F. Cooper is right after the Shelley article.  I am recovering from the trip and have to find time to do some reading.  It is absolutely fascinating.  I hope to do a commentary on Twain for Mary Wollstonecraft Day, unless something else pops up.  I had an absolutely smashing time in New Orleans.  It was all quite lovely, and we visited some very posh sites.  Geez, that 'accent' is showing up every time I open my mouth!
Linda

4/25/02 Ashton - but, but ...

Dear Linda,

Does this mean you will not post on Twain's essay on the Shelleys?! I did not know that such a thing even existed. It really is relevant here. I hoped that you would fully inform the rest of us.

My wife and I were in our early twenties when she read Twain's essay on Cooper to me. It is very wicked and very cruel so I don't remember why we laughed so hard and so long - well, maybe I do remember (hee, hee). You had better not be munching when you read it. Actually, all young, aspiring writers should be required to read it. (Jane Austen did not need such a lesson.)

4/26/02 Linda - Never fear

Dear Ash,

You will get the full treatment on the Shelley essay. It is extremely interesting.  I misled you. I wish to do something else with Twain on Mary Wollstonecraft Day which is all I will say at the moment.

I begin to think that he took lessons from Jane.  My 'first impression' is that he has a funny way of telling the truth.  Well, we know how we can get into trouble with 'first impressions'!  We will see.
Linda

4/23/02 Ashton - Oh! - and speaking of the Shelleys

Dear Linda,

You do indeed have a find! I will be looking forward to your postings.

I recently found an interesting chronology (with links) for Mary Shelley at the University of Delaware. Here are two entries to whet your appetite:

• July-Aug. - 1814: [Percy Shelley, Mary Godwin, and Claire Clairmont] take a six-week tour through France, Switzerland, Germany, and Holland. While in Paris, they leave behind a box of papers. MWS will later suspect it to contain letters "George Byron" uses to blackmail her in 1845.
• Oct. - 1845: George "Byron," an unknown correspondent who claimed to be Byron's son, offers to sell MWS several letters written by PBS and herself. In February 1846, he threatens to publish letters from both PBS and Harriet Shelley, but is dissuaded when MWS threatens an injunction against the publication.

"MWS" is Mary Wollstonecraft (Godwin) Shelley and "PBS" is Percy Bysshe Shelley

4/29/02 Linda - Mark Twain

Dear Ashton,

I managed to glance at some MT stuff and found that he did quite a bit of writing for the Atlantic Monthly magazine.  I went to their web site briefly and found that they have some online.  Check out this for a 'lost magazine article' he wrote.

Atlantic Monthly article

I wish I had time to thoroughly explore the other things at AM.  I really like him now and I want to read the entire article where he made those remarks about JA and I think I may come to a different conclusion than you did.
Linda

4/27/02 Linda - Thank you, Bree!

Dear Bree,

I did miss the last episode!  I had planned to call my daughter to tape it for me and forgot. She wondered why I had that large note taped to my door, but I failed to put in enough details.  I was sick about it.  So, thank you for telling me about the PBS site to catch the details of that episode.  Now I won't die of curiosity.  When I get to view it I will post anything of interest about it.  Yes, New Orleans was definitely fun.  I should write a report, perhaps.  Things have been hectic the last few days since I returned trying to get back in the groove.
Linda

From the Meister: Don't forget to post
on how Linda got her groove back.

4/28/02 Bree - The Way We Live Now

Dear Linda,

I know what you mean - because of working til 9:00 last 2 weeks, I had to miss the first 20 min. of TWWLN.  I missed both scenes between Hetta and Mrs. Hirtle!  The descriptions of the episodes are very synoptic and don't include details, but at least give one an idea of what took place.  Wish the videos they offer weren't so *(%&@ expensive!

4/28/02 Bree - People are people

Dear Asht,

I agree, I will never understand how ANYONE who really appreciates the Art of Austen could choose '85 over '95.  The more I see '95, the more I love it.  I don't think it could be improved upon, but maybe in 10 or 15 years, someone will.  I always think of Colin Firth as Darcy now.  Oh, by the way, I have not been able to come here too often lately due to change of work schedule and evening hours 4 x week.  Well, maybe you didn't notice!  but my absence is not due to lack of interest!  Also, must use spare time to view all the Pride and Prejudices there are!

4/28/02 Ashton - since you Asht

Dear de Bree,

You say, "I always think of Colin Firth as Darcy now." Um-mm, what do you mean exactly? Maybe you mean what I do when I say, "I always think of Jennifer Ehle as Elizabeth now."

I do notice when you are absent, and I become deeply hurt. Sniff! If you want to make amends, perhaps you will make a long post on Mary Wollstonecraft Day - May 1.

Do you teach courses about films?

4/29/02 Debree - Yes, it is the same

Dear Mr. Meister,

Yes, it is the same.  When Darcy appears on a page or in my head, he looks and sounds like Colin Firth!  I guess it's pretty much the same with Jennifer Ehle, even though I have SEEN her in other things.  She is Elizabeth.  I'm afraid that there will never be another such felicitous casting for this novel!

By you I was properly humbled!  Or flattered.  I thought YOU taught courses on films til you otherwise informed me.  I teach English as a second language to adults.

From the Meister: Hey! I once took your course and did very well I think - I seem to remember a C+. No, I don't think that version of P&P will ever be improved upon. The cast, the screenplay's fidelity to the novel, the direction, the cinematography - everything. I can say the same about that Justine-Waddel version of Tess of the D'urbervilles, but even more so.

4/29/02 Cheryl - Garvie and Rintoul

Dear Ashton and Bree,

It's been a while since I watched the '85 P&P but I certainly enjoyed it when I first saw it.  I don't know if I prefer it to the '95, but the two hours of the '85 version were "meatier" than the whole 9 of the Ehle/Firth version put together.  I mean, we lose almost all of the "since I first saw his lovely grounds at Pemberley" scene just so we can see endless shots of Elizabeth running or Mr. Darcy with his shirt off.  There was also the problem of Elizabeth crying every two seconds...where is that in the book? I can't help but think that had the first writer been given 9 hours, we would have had the "definitive" Pride and Prejudice.

P.S.  I've always wondered at those people who would put Mr. Collins and Mary Bennet together.  I can't imagine the advantage of having two self-important blethering idiots in the same household. (Do any of us imagine that Mr. and Mrs. E are truly happy?)  There's also the small problem of Mary's inability to keep her thoughts to herself ... I doubt Lady Catherine would tolerate being corrected anymore than she would constant requests to borrow her books or use the piano.  As I've said before, the only indication that the Collins' married life isn't utter bliss is Elizabeth's belief that Charlotte should be embarassed by what her husband says and does.  I think we all know that it's a forunate young woman indeed who marries a man who her family and friends never think she should be embarassed of.

Cheryl

From the Meister: You see Elizabeth as a Barbie doll, Darcy as a zombie, and only a feminist-revisionist as a candidate for writing a faithful adaptation. The only time Elizabeth weeps in the 1995 film is when Darcy comes upon her in the Inn at Lambton just after she has read about Lydia's adventure. Weeping is perfectly consistent with that passage. It seems to me that Mary would have treated her husband with a genuine respect that he didn't deserve but needed so badly. In turn, Mary would have been in the pious situation in which she would have flourished (even if it would have appeared a bit silly to Elizabeth.) Charlotte will some day realize her mistake—the one Elizabeth warned her about—and then make her husband as miserable as herself.

4/30/02 Cheryl - Addendum: Mr & Mrs Collins

Dear Ashton,

Presumably you've seen the '85 version more recently than I have, but I don't remember it being particularly revisionist (not to be confused with making Elizabeth a modern tomboy I guess.)  As always, I wait for one shred of evidence that Mr & Mrs Collins aren't madly, deeply in love other than Elizabeth's feelings and questionable intepretations of Charlotte's encouraging her husband to work in the garden and her choice of sitting rooms. Elizabeth eventually learns the lesson that people aren't always as they seem; what about her devoted followers?
Cheryl

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