9-11
The Voices of Men in Praise
Of Jane Austen
Messages c.
May 19, 2002
9-11
Dear Mary,
It may well be that your good friend, Anna Barbauld, was thinking about you when she wrote her The Rights of Woman. That likely never got through to you, maybe this is more to your liking—could have served as your reply to Barbauld—could serve as a feminist mantra.
LOVE IS JUST A FOUR-LETTER WORD
Words and Music by Bob Dylan
1967, 1968 Warner Bros. Inc.Seems like only yesterday
I left my mind behind
Down in the Gypsy Café
With a friend of a friend of mine
She sat with a baby heavy on her knee
Yet spoke of life most free from slavery
With eyes that showed no trace of misery
A phrase in connection first with she
I heard...that love is just a four-letter wordOutside a rambling store-front window
Cats meowed to the break of day
Me, I kept my mouth shut, too
To you I had no words to say
My experience was limited and underfed
You were talking while I hid
To the one who was the father of your kid
You probably didn't think I did,
But I heard...you say that love is just a four-letter wordI said goodbye unnoticed
Pushed towards things in my own games
Drifting in and out of lifetimes
Unmentionable by name
Searching for my double, looking for
Complete evaporation to the core
Though I tried and failed at finding any door
I must have thought that there was nothing more
Absurd...than that love is just a four-letter wordThough I never knew just what you meant
When you were speaking to your man
I can only think in terms of me
And now I understand
After waking enough times to think I see
The Holy Kiss that's supposed to last eternity
Blow up in smoke, its destiny
Falls on strangers, travels free
Yes, I know now, traps are only set by me
And I do not really need to be
Assured...that love is just a four-letter word
Dear Folks,
Heather Swallow was a native of Vancouver Canada when she submitted over 60 postings at this site in the period from May 1999 through June 2000. Heather had a degree in English literature, so it is not surprising that she attempted to raise the level around here. It was a measure of her sweetness and good will that she did not rankle at her lack of success in that regard. I will link you to six of her efforts; you can obtain a more complete listing by scrolling down in this section of the Names Index.
Here is my sampling of Heather-postings for you.
Dear Ash,
Thank you for those "classics"! I simply lack the time to read all the postings, so I really appreciate your choosing some 'classics' to point in our direction. I had ventured into the archives on occasion and was overwhelmed by the wonderful material there. Please do some more of this from time to time.
I am sorry to report that I had to make another 'run' to Baton Rouge for the
funeral of my aunt. However, while there, my nephew left his copy of
Frankenstein lying around for me to discover. He had finished it so
he very kindly gave it to me. On the way home I managed to read the
Author's Introduction and the Preface before allowing any car-sickness to
develop. I found those as interesting as I suppose Frankenstein
is. She mentioned "Columbus and his egg" which I 'googled' and now
understand. Amazing what one can learn. Have you ever heard of the
movie Educating Rita? Well, I feel as though what I am now doing on
the Internet is the Educating Linda! And thanks for the
Dylan poem. I really must look into his work more thoroughly one of
these days.
Linda
Dear Linda,
Yes, I am going to begin a series of "MV Classics" that will end with a selection from your own postings. I am finding the composition of the introductions to the "MV Classics" to be fun.
I am sorry to learn of your Aunt. We lost our family patriarch last year, he was in his mid-nineties. Now you can be sorry for me because now I am the family patriarch.
I don't know which preface to Frankenstein you read. Mary Shelley wrote the preface to the later editions, but her husband wrote the Preface to the first edition. You must have noticed the use of great electrical machines for re-animation in all of the filmed versions. Well, there is no such thing in the novel itself; however, there is a brief mention of "galvanism" in Mary's version of the Preface. As you might have noticed, I have said some things about the novel. If you want to begin a discussion of that work, that would be most welcome.
I think that the Internet has taught us all a great deal. I think of it as a great teacher in that it leads us to the main sources, which are books and libraries. In fact, it is a set of teachers on any particular topic—a set we can call into our homes at any hour of the day where we can compare and select presentations.
Dear Voices,
I watched the film Pandemonium the other day. It's a BBC made movie about the friendship between Samuel Coleridge and William Wordsworth, starring John Hannah (of The Mummy and Sliding Doors) and a bunch of other British actors of the sort you recognize, but never know their names. I can't pretend to have any idea of the accuracy of the film which depicts Wordsworth as a talentless hanger-on as well as an informer/government agent. It also hints at a sexual relationship between Wordsworth and his sister, while at the same time depicting Coleridge's attraction to Wordsworth's sister as a chaste infatuation. It's not exactly a great movie, though the actor playing Coleridge read his verses with an unembarrassed passion which made it worthwhile watching, I thought.
I also watched about half of Waking Life an animated feature that might have been tolerable as a 15 minute short. It is a series of monologues presented by various people the "main" character knows and several college professors' lectures of the sort that seem profound when you're nineteen. The animation is very good, though stylistically not to my taste. I'm just too old to find enjoyment in a "talking heads" movie.
I intend to take John Halperin's bio of JA to Florida with me in hopes of
getting through it at least once during that time. Wish me luck!
Cheryl
Dear Cheryl,
Samuel Taylor Coleridge (1772-1834) and William Wordsworth (1770-1850) were, of course, contemporaries of Jane Austen (born: 1775). Among other things, Coleridge wrote The Rime of the Ancient Mariner and Kubla Khan. The Mariner was written for children and, so, is just right for me—I love it. (Maybe it is the animals-rights nature of the poem that appeals.) I like Kubla Khan so much that I have reproduced it at this web site.
Both men illustrate something that I think is an important consideration when trying to understand Jane Austen's politics and literary intent. (Although our Lady's basic attitude is shown in her description of an evening's conversation, "from the discussion of politics to silence was a short, easy step.") In particular, the relationship of the two men to the French Revolution tells us something important I think. Like Mary Wollstonecraft, Wordsworth even visited France in 1790, 91 shortly after the Revolution (1789). He began as a supporter of the revolutionary cause but ended up a detractor. This was the course followed by many other English intellectuals.—This pandemic disillusionment was caused by those dramatic, international events that I have tried to spell out for this community in detail. The disillusionment was an accomplished fact by the time of Jane Austen's first novel (1811).
A result was a fall from grace of those who had been the most ardent supporters of the French Revolution. The disgraced included William Godwin and Mary Wollstonecraft.
I have not seen Pandemonium, but I very much wish to do so. Is there mention of Coleridge's slide into opium addiction?
Dear Ash,
I pulled out my 'library sale' literature textbooks to research Coleridge and Wordsworth, albeit that it was long ago, and far away since I had ran into them. I was amazed to find that they were contemporaries of JA. Back in my school days they were just old dead poets. They take on a new light as Jane's contemporaries and part of what was 'happening' at that time. In retrospect it appears that a lot was happening.
I remember reading Mariner in HS, but did not get much out of it. Reading it now I see the Christian influence. It is as if he is telling the Bible story in different words. Would that the religious folk had arrived at the same point as Coleridge, and I am referring to your point as well re the animal-rights nature. I would also include human rights. I am still trying to 'get' the meaning of Kubla Khan.
As to the 'relationship' of the literary bunch to the French Revolution and their ultimate disillusionment, I can see the same thing happened in our day with Communism. In addition, I do thank you for spelling out those international events of that time. I just got around to taking a long hard look at that post and from my genealogical research, realized that one of my forefathers must have been caught up in some of it because I am having a hard time getting any details about him. So the information just may aid me in finding out more about him. Thanks.
You mentioned Coleridge's opium addiction - it seems things never change, as
in today we have pot, acid, drugs, etc. Funny, in my day we were real
'rebels' if we had a few beers! Now I wish I could go back and really read
the lit textbooks I had, just to see what was in them.
Linda
From the Meister: Gulp! You mean that Kubla Khan has some meaning. That's odd, I always just went with it—never gave it much thought. I thought I was just listening to the pretty words and letting the images flow by. I never thought to think. Well, let me know what you find out. Or, try my way—just let it happen to you.
Dear Cheryl,
I enjoyed Waking Life. The same director did a well known low budget live action movie called Slacker. It's set in Austen, TX, and is well worth seeing (if you have a taste for post-college slackers).
Who was it that wrote the poem blasting Wordsworth for betraying both his friends and his talent? I can't remember.
It's good to see the board still going strong. Sorry I haven't contributed more recently.
Dear Bruce,
I checked with IMDb for Slacker and thought I might enjoy it also. I am beginning to get worried about myself lately. Recently I have seen and liked 10 Things I Hate About You (a remake, update of Shakespeare's "The Taming of the Shrew"), and Bridget Jones' Diary (sort of liked) which I will discuss in detail in another post to Bree. Maybe I am in my second childhood, er, teenage years.
Your question about the poem blasting Wordsworth (which I don't know about
either) made me realize that all those people in my literature books were
real people! It would have been nice if we had had teachers who
brought those works to life for us. But don't get me started on the
education system. And do jump back into the water here; somebody has to
keep the Meister straightened out!
Linda
Dear Cheryl,
It might be rough, but I do wish you luck in getting that bio read. Pandemonium sounded interesting so I checked with IMDb and found it under Pandaemonium from France (eek, how could you?). Here we pick up a trail—first, I noticed that Samantha Morton (one of those 'British actors') is in it.
Okay, so my memory rarely works and I had to click on her name to find out where I had seen her. She was in Emma (Harriet Smith), Tom Jones, and Jane Eyre, all dated in 1997 (how could I forget all that?). She was busy that year! What really caught my eye was that she is listed as being in Boswell for the Defence (2001). Boswell? hmmm—is that 'the' Boswell of Boswell's Life of Johnson? Sure enough, 'twas!
Now here is a strange story indeed! Even though Boswell for the Defence (2001) is listed on IMDb, it has not yet been completed. They have run out of money. The only stars listed were Michael Caine, Samantha and Michael Gambon. It seems Boswell, in his later years, defended a woman, Mary Broad, whose only chance of escaping the gallows was to get the drunken lawyer Boswell to plead her case before the hardliner judge, Lord Advocate Dundas (Michael Gambon). The judge happens to be an old friend of Boswell's, but throughout the years he has never budged an inch where the law is concerned. Sounds like a good tale to me. What really gets my goat is, if Michael Caine has made all those films through the years and raked in a ton of money (supposedly), why can't he fund the movie? Just what do they do with it?
Now this scenario brought to mind Mary Wollstonecraft. There is a good candidate for a movie; it should be right up Hollywood's alley. It would have sex of all kinds, radicals, literary folk, scandals, travel, etc. A most interesting epilogue would read: "the baby girl born at her death ran off with Percy Bysshe Shelley, then married him and wrote Frankenstein". You know, they had a son, Percy Florence; I wonder whatever became of him? Hold on, now I know—here is a short link.
If "Mary" were done, it would behoove us to keep in mind that such a movie presents a limited view of England at that time, because in that same period we have Jane Austen and her folk of a different mold.
What a trail you have led me down, Cheryl!
Linda
Dear Linda,
If you check the All-Star ballot, you will find that Samantha Morton is the leading vote-getter in the role of Harriet Smith. She certainly gets my endorsement. She is an excellent actress that is as likely to play a street-wise drug addict as she is to appear in a costume picture. She is of the same rank as Ehle or Waddell—you know what that means coming from me.
You mention a comparison of Jane Austen's vision of English country gentry—"her folk of a different mold"—with other literary or filmed versions of English society of those times. I have been thinking along the same lines recently and wonder if it might not be interesting to compare Jane Austen's view with those presented in the following list:
Yes, Wuthering Heights is set in Jane Austen's time even though it was written much later. In fact, if Heathcliff and Cathy had been real characters rather than fictional, they would have been about the age of Jane Austen's oldest brother. That novel was a throwback in another way—it was a gothic novel. I mean that absolutely every element required of the gothic was included by Bronte. (Well, except that hers was far better written than the gothics that Jane Austen consumed in her youth.) Also, Bronte's Heathcliff will cure your aversion to General Tilney. Heathcliff not only beat the stuffing out of his own wife, he physically abused a neighbor's daughter, imprisoned her, and forced her to marry his son. And then he slapped her around. Not exactly a Darcy was he?
Remember what D. H. Lawrence said on this matter of moldy folks.
Incidentally, who would you cast in the role of Mary Wollstonecraft?
Dear Ash,
First, Samantha Morton - yes, I remember now, I even voted for her as Harriet. The 'little gray cells' need a little prodding now and then.
As for the comparison of the four novels you mentioned, that sounds like a great idea. To be fair, I must first read them. I have seen three of the movies, but that doesn't count. A comparison would make an excellent 'study'. Has anyone ever done that before? There are so many academic works around that I will be surprised if one does not already exist.
Wuthering Heights was a Gothic novel! So that is what Emily Bronte was doing! I never made the connection. Having read The Mysteries of Udolpho I can see that now. That genre was not so far removed from their time. You say Heathcliff was worse than General Tilney; maybe that is why I never took time to read it. I am going to, but I have a strange feeling that it will be hard for me to get through. The Bronte's are still a mystery to me.
I agree with you about what D. H. Lawrence said, and as we say, 'consider the source'. I am referring to him as the author of Lady Chatterly's Lover which I did read, but I consider him no Jane Austen.
Oh boy, when I read your question "Incidentally, who would you cast in the
role of Mary Wollstonecraft?", I had to laugh because the first actress that
popped into my head was Madonna! I have no reasonable explanation for it -
I have never seen her act or sing, except for the ads of her movies. Maybe
it is the similar lifestyle or personality or something. However I do
question that Madonna could handle the "literary" part. Seriously though,
now that I have stopped laughing, I think any of those three, Ehle, Morton, or
Waddell could handle it.
Linda
Dear 50 Lashtons,
During the previous couple of weeks a lot has been going on, including the college graduation of my beautiful, accomplished daughter, as well as the lapse of two days when the website was not accessible. So I'm going back in time to Bridget Jones and also kaleidoscopic Darcy-Bingley.
By the way, the reference on 04-02-02 says Colin Firth's character was William Darcy; however, it was actually Mark Darcy.
I hope Colin Firth never saw the final film, and went home and watched P&P instead! If a movie ever bit, that one was it! I can't come up with any answers about the screenwriters messing around with that particular opening conversation between Darcy and Bingley. It leaves a gap in the establishment of Darcy's character, although Bingley does not really address that issue. I think it is best addressed by Elizabeth at Rosings, when she deliberately asks Col. Fitzwilliam why a man with all Mr. Darcy's abilities and social training, finds it so difficult to "recommend himself" to people he doesn't know. This tells the reader that actually Darcy might not be as self confident and arrogant as he appears on the surface. He himself admits that he was given good principles, but left to follow them in pride and conceit. Mr. Darcy's only real fault was in letting himself be transported into the future and becoming part of Bridget Jones' Diary. Did you see it?
Dear Bree,
Do give my heartiest "Congratulations!" to your daughter on her graduation. I wish her well for the future!
BTW I am enjoying very much the 'salutations' between you and what's-his-name! I don't know how you think it up but it is fun to watch!
I first saw the BJD travesty in the theater last year. That statement tells you what I thought of it. Recently I saw it again on tape because I wanted to find the part where Bingley appeared for a few seconds. Well, that was my excuse anyway. The first half was still a travesty, but I found myself getting warm and tingly in the second half when Darcy was warming up to Bridget.
You did not say exactly what bothered you about the movie, but here is what bothered me. It made women look dumb and having only one goal in life -to find a man. I said 'man', not mate, life companion, etc. That, also, was the goal of most Mothers and Daughters in the Fifties and Sixties when I grew up. And of course, it was way too explicit for my taste - not JA at all. I still think she would turn over in her grave if she saw what they did to Mr. Darcy. A lot of the younger set assured me that it was all in fun - a comedy. I guess I am way too serious, so I decided to lighten up a bit and give it another try. But all in all, it is still a travesty. I am on a mission to define what the true, Godly role is for women. We ain't [yes, ain't] quite there yet! I have found some very interesting things along the way.
You stated:
Those thoughts remind me of the time I finally realized that actors were only people whose profession was acting. They are not necessarily skilled at making the best choices for a career (a manager), or keeping track of their money (an accountant), or being a Christian (choosing a virtuous lifestyle and partner), etc. They are simply good at being actors! I am afraid that we give them more credit than they are due. Colin Firth is NOT Mr. Darcy. Believe me, I thought he was at first too! I am afraid, and do believe, that most of their decisions of what movie to make is based on Money, period. Once in awhile you will hear of someone making a movie because it is a powerful story.
I did see Circle of Friends, as well as Shakespeare in Love, Valmont, A Thousand Acres, The Turn of the Screw, The English Patient, and Camille (I have it on tape but not viewed) - and the only movie I like of his is P&P. Not that his acting is bad, I just did not care for those movies. His talent is wasted in them. If I said this anywhere else I would probably be run out of town on a rail. Linda
Dear Mishmashton,
Is it possible that what you see as admirable in Lady C. could just be her desire to CONTROL???? Just a suggestion...but notice that many of her invitations to Mr. and Mrs. Collins and Elizabeth were either for lack of enough company, or during the time when Darcy and Fitzwilliam were there, and she had to offer them something other than herself, Anne and Mrs. Jenkins?
Also, do you agree that she was somewhat younger than depicted in P&P-95? I guess cousins marrying wasn't a big deal in those days, as it also occurred in Mansfield Park. But in the early 1800's, most women married and had children when they were young (cf Mrs. Bennett's delight in having Lydia married at 16), and this Lady Catherine could have been grandmother of Elizabeth, and presumably, Anne de Bourgh.
Dear Breemfull,
Yes, I agree, Lady C. is obsessively controlling. (Perhaps Anne is not sickly but only whipped.) But, that does not mean that she did not have her likes and dislikes—I mean that Jane Austen could not imbue her with likes and dislikes.
In fact, everyone in Darcy's family takes an instant liking to Elizabeth. (Well, we are given no indication of cousin Anne's inclination in that regard.) In that way, Jane Austen further prepares us for the marriage.
You talk of my "admiration" for Lady C. I think that unfair—I think that too strong a word. I was merely giving the devil her due.
I agree with you about that age matter. I suspect that Sue Birtwistle went with the best actress for that part without not much regard to the question of age. From that point of view, the producer made a good choice.
Dear Bree and Ash,
I also sense that Lady Catherine is controlling. As far as Barbara Leigh-Hunt (60 at the time) is concerned, now that you bring it to my attention, she is rather old. I failed to take much notice because she wore a brown wig without any gray that gave her a more youthful look. I still like Edna May Oliver as Lady C (57 at the time), and now that she comes to mind, she might have been too old also, but she had the perfect countenance and demeanor for the part - snotty, er, snobbish. I looked up their ages and they do appear to be rather old for the part. Anne would have been born when she was 40ish - too old in my estimation.
As for what
Ashton said about Lady C., I giggled all the way through it, envisioning his
tongue firmly planted in his cheek, though quite right about giving the devil
her due.
Linda
Links